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January 18th, 2011
04:54 PM ET
Men have upper hand in sexual economyIt's not a new theory: As women progress in educational and professional opportunities, their odds of finding a committed man appear to go down. Women in their 40s and 50s have long heard this, but new research finds it's true for women just entering adulthood as well. That's one of the findings in the new book "Premarital Sex in America: How Young Americans Meet, Mate and Think About Marrying," by researchers Mark Regnerus and Jeremy Uecker at the University of Texas at Austin. They looked at the results from a number of national studies including the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health and the National Study of Youth and Religion, in addition to interviews with young people ages 18 to 23. Researchers found that since women in the 18- to 23-year-old group feel they don't need men for financial dependence, many of them feel they can play around with multiple partners without consequence, and that the early 20s isn't the time to have a serious relationship. But eventually, they do come to want a real, lasting relationship. The problem is that there will still be women who will have sex readily without commitment, and since men know this, fewer of them are willing to go steady. "Women have plenty of freedom, but freedom does not translate easily into getting what you want," Regnerus said. The wide availability of pornography has also influenced the dynamics of relations between men and women, Regnerus said. A segment of 20-something men are content to have their sexual experiences by themselves, removing them from the pool of available partners. That means high-quality men - likely those who want monogamous, committed relationships - are still eligible for dating, but the overall dating pool has shrunk, meaning some women will be left unsatisfactorily single. Researchers also found that marrying at or before age 20 constitutes the greatest risk for subsequent divorce, the data show. Early marriage doesn’t cause the divorce, but the partners are likely to be unprepared for the kinds of adjustments required, Regnerus said. And here's perhaps some good news: Sexual behavior among this age group is less salacious than you might think. The "hookup culture" is most prominent when there is a Greek system present; otherwise, college students seem more inclined toward stable relations and have fewer sexual partners. In case you were wondering, 16% of 18- to 23-year-olds are virgins, according to the surveys used in the book. In that age group there are more men than women who have never had sex. By age 27, the portion of virgins goes down to 8%. soundoff (1,373 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Next »Leave a Reply to avanafil
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Being educated and successful may make a woman statistically less likely to get married... but for those who do marry, being educated and successful makes women more likely to STAY married. A woman is in the best position to avoid divorce if she is college-educated (the more the better), has her own income, and she marries no sooner than age 25. Women who fit this description have a very, very small likelihood of finding themselves in divorce court - WELL under national averages. Furthermore, since they can support themselves, women in this category are the least likely to be stuck in a bad marriage ... so they must be staying because they actually like being married.
So this begs the question... is the goal for women to GET married, or to STAY married? Personally, I'm voting for the latter. Being educated and earning a decent income may lower your chances of getting married, but it's still a win-win, since it means you don't require a man to survive either way. Being married to someone becomes a choice rather a necessity, and the more self-sufficient a woman is, the better choices in a romantic partner she tends to make. I see this as a good thing, for women, for men, and for families.
LEB,
are you saying then that the less educated the woman the more likely she will get divorced? If that's your reasoning are you in agreement with the idea that they get divorced when a "better deal" comes around if they can attract it? That is, if there is no abuse, but personal values, needs, beliefs change or there's a difficult patch (financial, health, social standing decrease) that is "too much to handle" (that's relative of course), that they'll seek a "better" opportunity?
Talk about survival of the fittest....to a point. That point being when they're no longer attractive (whatever your classification for that is) to attract and keep that "better" opportunity.
It's not "reasoning" to say that less educated women are more likely to become divorced, it's "reporting a well validated statistic."
I knew from an early age that I would be happier as a single woman even though I love men. I'm a senior citizen now and still happy as can be with that decision. I've been free to enjoy my life and reinvent myself as I wished, and a few wonderful men have traveled down life's paths with me now and then. My love and thanks to those great guys. To those guys who think there is something wrong with an unmarried woman I say 'Eat my dust!'
It seems to me that the reason that educated women that marry STAY married is because they generally don't fall into the group of those that get married in their teens or early twenties - that group with the worst success at staying married.
I think it likely comes down to the scientific reality that most people are not fully mature until they are in their mid-twenties so they are not ready to get married. As for the men, their brains may be mature, but many of them seem to fall into the social trap of "Peter Pan" syndrome that says they should think, feel and act like teenagers for as long as possible. So when women are ready to settle down, a significant percentage of the men in their age group still want to be out acting like kids.
The reality is – Most women who are available to date and are single come with baggage, and usually emotionally scarred by the time they realize who they are as individuals (and settling on what they need to be happy verses some ideological desire) and ready for self-sacrifice to "stay" in-love. Unfortunately by that point, most men at that age range have lost the kind of passion (spark) that it take to be in-love with anyone new after being completely disillusioned by what they romantically thought women really wanted from them in life. Being used as meal tickets. People who help them find work. And introduce them to their life, only to be taken advantage of by young women who's only true concern was for the moment, and probably themselves.
Well put LEB
LEB sounds like a well-educated personwh o clearly understood the point of the article and is using statistics to show a correlation. I agree with everything he/she said, although as a well-educated, recently single 24 year old, I am hoping there is still a man out there for me! What a great article to put perspective into the dating world.
@Finder82 - Yup, women with less education are more likely to get divorced, more likely to have children out of wedlock, more likely to be below the poverty line, etc etc and so on. Don't get upset at me for it, it's just a statistical fact.
@AnneS - I agree, age by itself absolutely plays a big role, for the reasons you noted. For both men and women, the age of 25 is a significant benchmark for predicting marital success. There are happily married couples who married much younger than 25, but for most people it's a good general guideline. I know I was no where near ready to be married before then!
@eMel - Take heart, the majority of people who want to get married eventually do. =) When you pick the right person, it's a wonderful thing.
Yes, well put, LEB.
I thought it was silly that this article started off with the sentence "As women progress in educational and professional opportunities, their odds of finding a committed man appear to go down."
This is a confusing and misleading sentence. Are they talking about specific women or broad social trends? It strikes me as the typical fear tactics used to keep women's ambitions and autonomy in check because many men don't have the personal skills (emotional availability, negotiation skills, parenting skills, healthy ego strength, empathy, compassion) to succeed in equal partnership.
The statistic that "educated and successful women are more likely to stay married" may be misleading. First of all, divorce – despite its financial enticements of child support, alimony, and keeping the house – is more likely to impoverish a woman than staying married is, so my question is: Does the way this statistic has been compiled "put the cart before the horse?"
Secondly, are these educated and successful women so designated coming into the marriage, or are a growing proportion educated and successful because their marriages last?
Thirdly, does this statistic take marriages which are actually working and happy, and lump these marriages together with the sham marriages in which there is some understanding, or some undetected pattern of cheating going on which the educated and successful woman is too busy or too career-oriented to notice?
Everything about America – the laws, the culture, the educational structure, the news industry, the advertising, the music and the song lyrics, the mainstream religious life, the workplace and the typical family – once promoted the idea and enforced the lifestyle that girls should be raised to be wives and mothers, and ought to stay with their own families until marriage. Today, everything about America imposes and stamps the lifestyle of serial polygamy on the future of almost every American girl, and tends to punish any girl, and anyone around any particular girl, who might otherwise choose to live her lifestyle according to the old devoted and monogamous lifestyle which built America and made it into a great nation.
The particular culprit here is the educational structure, which has since the 1970's increasingly raised American girls to be tramps. This is what America is getting for its tax dollars – a new-pattern liberal model of intergenerational cycle of abuse through broken relationships and broken families. Remember, America is still a country with a double-digit divorce rate – and if the number of common-law marriages which end up as broken are figured into this, the actual divorce rate might be triple digit – more than two for every individual who has ever been part of a couple!
This is one more reason to privatize public education. America can't have this much longer, or it will disintegrate politically just as it already has socially, economically and morally.
Because it's generally easier for women to play the field, they want to "settle down" sooner than men. Until men have enough experiences with a certain threshold of women, they'll just keep on playing well into middle-age.
I'm with you LEB and have been "brainwashing" my six year old daughter that the age to even begin considering marriage is 25 AND after she's completed college. Ask her what age before she should have children and she'll respond 30, after marriage and after college. I hope it sticks. At the same time, I worry about the type of man she may meet. I'm one of the good guys with morals, values, etc., but I can honestly say that the good guys are few and far in between.
I'm of the impression that American society sees marriage to a large extent as something that can be tossed away like an old newspaper. Society no longer teaches that a couple should try to stick together and work through issues. Unfortunately, children are usually involved and as much as "people" like to say they do not need a man, a child DOES. Growing up, my father used to say that a child that was acting up or was just flat out wild was lacking a parent. I didn't know what he meant until I had a my daughter and was around other parents/children. We've known kids before and after a divorce and there's a major change after the divorce. Prior to a divorce, with both parents involved, the child is happy, well-mannered, stable, etc. After a divorce, the child is more out of control, getting into trouble, etc. This all in elementary school.
My stepson, when young, always wanted his dad. It was a major part missing for him so he went to live with him in his teen years. Unfortunately, reality didn't mesh well with his fantasy belief of what the union would be, but the point is, although the woman/mother may not need the father, the child does.
Gotta run, taking daughter to school.
I agree with you, LEB.I I was 23, college educated and a virgin when I got married to the man of my dreams. Encouraged by him (A highly educated man) I attended grad school and lated went back to college to study fine arts, my real passion. When our daughters were born I decided to stay at home to raise them, but with my degrees and being fluent in two languages, I know I am employable and I am confident that I can go back to the work force when I'm done raising our children or if something happens and he is not with us anymore.
It's been 12 years, and I still love being married. We make a great team!
observer, Of course the article is talking about broad social trends bot specific women. Stay in school if you can't figure that out and that it makes you confused.
I married at 22, and that was almost 20 years ago and I'm still deliriously happy with my wife. However, we ARE both university-educated: she in English and I in engineering. University education doesn't solve every problem, but it does give you certain skills, like better communication skills and methods for analyzing situations objectively. That doesn't sound very romantic, but it can be a relationship-saver if you run into a rough patch, because it helps you step back and figure out what's wrong together, so you can both solve the problem.
I know some people are going to say it sounds "elitist" to say that uneducated people have poor communication and analysis skills, but that perjorative label doesn't mean it isn't true.
LEB – I couldn't agree with you more. There is a missing piece to your analysis, however. There are women out there (men too) who actively search for a partner to marry who earns significantly more than they do, regardless of education level, employing the strategy of improving their financial condition whether the marriage is successful or not. Believe it or not, some relatively successful and reasonably wealthy people actually enter into such unions without benefit of a prenuptial agreement. I personally know a guy who married a woman earning twice his income (and he made a nice living on his own) and he basically just moved into her house and they married. He will never admit it, but it is well known that he didn't want the pressure of being a "primary breadwinner" of a household within a marriage. Oddly enough they are still married and seem happy 20 years later. Go figure...
@LEB – thanks! You just described me 😀 LOL
From what I've seen men assume women would want to "stay" married, but my experience tells me that women really desire to "get" married much more than they want to "stay" married. They don't value marriage as much as us men do and that really throws guys for a loop because we all assume they value it more.
Thanks for brining data to your opinion. Can you provide a source?
@finder82, That's not LEB's opinion, it's a statistical fact that less educated women are divorced more often.
Problem #1: Every woman wants the guy in the picture above. I'm decent looking, but I'm not that guy with bulging muscles from hanging out in a gym several times a week.
Problem #2: Unless you look like the guy from Problem #1 above, women don't seem to appreciate how good of a father you are. Everyone who knows me says that I'm the best father they've ever seen, but that never translates to dates. This seems to indicate to me that women are more into having a prize guy next to them than wanting someone who can help raise their children in the best way possible.
Anyway, I'm sorta "over" the whole dating thing. I'm just planning on being single from here on out.
@ Scott, re: "getting married" vs. "staying married".... you're missing the fact that there is wonderful incentive for a woman to get married, and wonderul incentive for her to get divorced if she so chooses. By getting married, she becomes the center of attention for a few weeks, fulfills her childhood fantasies, feels wanted, yada yada. By getting divorced, she gets financial security guaranteed by our legal system... even more so if she had babies with said husband.
Not true. But it is funny that CNN ran apiece not long ago that men are no longer needed due to their newfound opportunities...so what's the prob?
So well put, LEB. Marriage shouldn't be the end-all, be-all goal for women. We certainly wouldn't tell an unmarried man that his life was unfulfilled without marriage, so why would be perpetuate this nonsense with our daughters, friends, etc.? Incidentally I fit the bill: I got engaged as an undergraduate, broke up with my fiance, and went to graduate school.
To Thinks2010, bravo for living your life unscripted!
To eMel, you're 24, there is plenty of time! Good luck! 🙂
I think Leb is on to something here..but being misinterpreted.. A quality man likes the comapany of a quality woman. So ladies.. if you want a good man.. better yourself and the oyster may open up to reveal a pearl.. but if he never comes along (shrinking pool of potentials) then you have made yourself into something great that you will have no shame in and be admired by many!
I've been lucky to hang onto my quaity man.. I have an education and a good career. His ex is uneducated and kindof a mess when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Perhaps the answer is that the more schooling you have, the better your coping skills and the more likely you are to be open and honest about who you are and what you really want.. none of the childish guessing games
What ever happened to the good ole' days when all you had to do was club a woman one good time and drag her back to your cave?
Doesn't matter what his/her education, if they cheated on me I'm gone.
I don't know what unspecified data you are talking about LEB – did you just pluck that 'stat' from thin air?
The only real study I've seen done on the matter clearly shows that the odds of a woman divorcing her husband rise DRAMATICALLY when any of these factors are present: college degree, career oriented, lives in urban area, non-religious, and has slept with more than 1 or 2 other men prior to marriage. In other words, your type is the MOST likely to divorce a man and leave him financially ruined. This is the real reason why men find these women less appealing- on a subconscious level they know they don't make good wives.
Among college-educated couples, the percentage of divorces initiated by wives is a whopping 90 percent.
http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/faq/emotional/who-initiates-divorce-men-or-women.html
Re:
Leo
The reality is – Most women who are available to date and are single come with baggage, and usually emotionally scarred by the time they realize who they are as individuals (and settling on what they need to be happy verses some ideological desire) and ready for self-sacrifice to "stay" in-love. Unfortunately by that point, most men at that age range have lost the kind of passion (spark) that it take to be in-love with anyone new after being completely disillusioned by what they romantically thought women really wanted from them in life. Being used as meal tickets. People who help them find work. And introduce them to their life, only to be taken advantage of by young women who's only true concern was for the moment, and probably themselves.
I agree with this statement, b/c looking back, a man I dated fits some of that description.
Begby and EricZ – Those stats are out of total divorces for college-educated (etc) couples. So 90% of divorces among college-ed couples are initiated by women. That doesn't mean those couples are more likely to get divorced – just that the wife is more likely to file.
So the career oriented, colege-ed, urban-living, non-religious, or non-virgin b4 marriage wife is more likely to file for a divorce than her (any kind of) husband. This has nothing to do with overall divorce rates.
LEB, what you wrote is totally true to some degree. i think being educated and/or successful are factors. However, we failed to look at life experiences what he or she has been exposed to. Life experiences along with education shapes and molds individuals perception of life. There are so many facets when it comes to marriage, relationship, and divorce the difficult part is being rational when making life decision which can have a positive or negative impact in the future.
Is it that educated and successful women are less ABLE to find spouses, or are they just more selective? Once you have an MD/JD/PhD, a bachelor with a bachelor's might no longer be a satisfactory catch.
Yeah Right! All those successful Hollywood women have such low rates of divorce.
what the heck does "having a Greek system present" mean ?
Frats and sororities.
Toga-Toga-Toga
Sleeping with goats and using olive oil as lube.
Boys doing boys.
Sounds like sparky and greenie didn't get bids in college. Typical bitter Geeds...
It means "a lot of worthless infantile fratboys who think of university as a playground rather than a place of hard work because their rich daddies are paying their way".
Sounds like The_Affiliated spent too much time in college doing boys and using olive oil as lube- otherwise he would have attended the class on Greek culture and known that sparky and greenie were probably speaking literally.
"Go steady"??? What age is the man that wrote this article????
A woman wrote this article. Her name is Elizabeth Landau.
All that whining and self-pity didn't clue you in to the fact that a woman wrote this?
I could tell a woman wrote it from the headline
Man, woman, whatever, I thought the same thing when I read that "go steady" line. What is this? Junior high circa 1977?
@ablie – Writers don't usually create their own headlines - that's usually done by an editor.
Wow! I knew I was in the minority, but 8%?!?! No wonder I have trouble finding a man with similar morals. The single ones comprise <10% of the population! Not sure if that makes me feel better or worse. Definitely makes me appreciate the man I'm with right now. I got a high-five when we discovered we were both virgins at age 29.
A high-five? I think I see your problem...
Bee, don't worry I was right there with you....I was until I was 25 and met my now husband.
Wow, that's a lot of lost opportunity you'll never get back. Life is too short.
I'm with Cookie Creature. All that missed pleasure!
He's lieing
Good for you!!!! I personally am not a virgin but I completely believe in waiting for the one who you think may be the one rather than just screwing every person you see. whether you meet that person at 18 or 75; waiting for the possible "one" is totally worth it. And even if it turns out not to be the "one;" as in my case, you still cared for that person on a level that you haven't reached with other people.
In regards to this article, I know I don't NEED a man to make me happy and to have a family but I WANT a man to make me happy and to raise a family with. I know the more educated and mature I get, the more likely I'll be able to choose someone that is good for me for the rest of my life.
Aurora, the one who will be good for you for the rest of your life is more likely to be taken the longer you spend finding yourself and getting educated. There isn't just one, anyway. There are a lot of people out there you could fit well with. There's a different life down each road. It's really hard to pick one. The younger you are the less capable of making a good choice you are but the most roads you can choose from.
Wait til you're 75 and "the one" is just going to be "the one next door" because there's nothing else out there for you, not because you were both heading for the climax of a love story 3/4 century in the making.
The cookie monster is right. Though, what you now share with your husband is much more valuable than what the rest of us heathen share (after many partners) with our current spouses. The more partners you have, the more lust-filled memories, but the less unique and personal the moments you get to share with whoever you end up with.
Good for you – and good for the guy you're with. My hubby and I also waited – no regrets, so totally worth it.
Good for you. You'll never regret NOT doing it with the wrong man, but you will regret it if you do. Be sure – you only get your first time once.
Bee, that's great. I can tell you don't care what others think, but I hope you will continue to feel that way. There are plenty of people who will appreciate your values. You probably wouldn't want to date about 90 percent of the guys out there anyway.
Bee,
I loved you on the Andy Griffith Show.
You guys mormon?
Bee, I'm right there with you! It cracks me up when people say how do you do it...my response I'm not just going to waste it on a random man, sorry I have morals 🙂
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAhA
29 year old virgin AHAHAHAHHAAHAH
FYI the whole concept of "saving it" is ridiculous.
1st off, your first time is likely going to be uncomfortable, painful, and awkward as a woman. That's for anatomical reasons that will probably be censored if I explain
2nd, if you get married to someone before you do the deed you may have just gotten stuck with the WORST partner for LIFE and not even KNOW IT.
life's too short I pity the old virgins, they have no clue what they're missing.
"you can't regret NOT doing it"
no, you can, when you're old and your life is coming to an end and you realize you lost all those years of possible great experiences.
sad sad sad
You THINK your man was a virgin when you meet him....men lie women lie.period
Its time for charlie and bubba smith to come out of the closet.
Karma, it's all about karma.
don't insult people. it's bad karma.
don't use people. it's bad karma.
for instance your just one big bowl of disrespect.
So sometime in the future your probably gonna be swimming in a pool disrespect directed towards you.
it's Karma man.
I think they should just get jobs. Maybe if Charlie and Bubba T were educated and successful, women who also were successful wouldn't threaten them as much.
some news for all the karma talk. I'm literally the nicest person i know, and my house was robbed twice, set on fire another time, and I was stabbed in the chest and beaten for hours with pipes and bats. Karma does not exist.
Now why do you have to start assuming people are gay because they don't like women. I have gay friends that like women.
@justin - Maybe you know some truly awful people. Being better than everyone you know doesn't mean good enough.
@Justin – What you can do is add a metal door and secure your windows. Don't just stand there and think you can't do nothing about being robbed, because you can, but a lot of people just lack common sense.
There will be an entire generation of women alone with cats, single mothers between 35-45 hopped up on anti-depressants. Feminism ruined women. Men sit back and wonder what the heck happened to females! Many men will laugh with contented amusement. They can fix it, we don't care anymore.
That's the problem with men. You won't take care of your family or refrain from beating/cheating on your wife, but you will laugh at the mothers of your children when they are "single moms". Get a clue. Men caused feminism.
I think you have a unique view on those stereotypes –
An "cat lady" is most often a widow, and a "depressed middle aged woman" is either married and unhappy, or divorced. Not single for either of them. I could be wrong though. But then again, they're stereotypes and typically don't hold their water.
I think you are referring to *American* women. There are others out there, you know.
You know what, HCA?
Your stuff aint all that fabulous, or great looking for that matter! Men think they have it all, but to be honest, cleaning those sheets (and the slimy stuff between my legs) ain't all that much fun, especially when I can have much better WITHOUT you! Half the time, you don't hit the high notes, and when you do, you have no personality to match- so, who the hell cares about you and what you "think" you can do with my "box". I have more education, more money and more "fun" without your bad ass!! Remember the movie "When Harry met Sallly" and how most women fake orgasm for your sorry ass.
You think feminism is the reason so many women file for divorce now, and that women WEREN'T unhappy before the women's revolution? That's a somewhat deluded way of thinking. If the traditional model of marriage and women's role in society was good for and desirable to women, society would never have changed. You can bet your knickers that just as many women (if not significantly more) were unhappy in their marriages in the 1950s as are today. The only difference is that today, the unhappily married can DO something about it.
@hca reply – in regards to cleaning the slimy stuff between your legs. If you are truly educated and intelligent, you should have the sense to use a condom, at least until you get to know the guy.
Spot on.
Sounds like you're one of those bitter men from the manosphere. Feminism didn't cause these issues. Gender roles are changing. Women want to be treated with equality and respect. In the end, that's what's best for everyone. I hear men complain constantly about being used as a meal ticket. The feminists wanted education and careers so that they didn't have to be your meal ticket and so that love could be about love and not money. That's not a bad thing. It's only threatening if you're a weak man.
What? Feminism killed women? I think you mean that it made women recognize their true potential. That they don't have to rely on a guy because of what is socially acceptable.
To Matt T:
that wasn't nice. I was just pointing out that I believe in Karma.
for instance I bet someone is going to insult you in the near future and it'll make you cry like the immature boy you are.
It's Karma man. Embrace it. or it will bite you in the behind.
Surf on dude
This article is about how loser men (like you) reject educated and successful women (like me). however it's a mute point, because I wouldn't give a loser like you the time of day anyways
bitter old lady. I wonder why you can't find a guy. aw, does someone need a hug ?
Enjoy your trailer park home and your dumb unemployed traditional wives!!!
To GreatArticle:
man some people just never learn. Now
you're disprespecting the poor and women who choose traditional marriage life. mega negative karma points.
Can't you see I'm not your enemy. I'm trying to warn you of your self destructing ways.
Karma is real. Be nice to people. (heads up by the way, most of the world is poor. now why do you want to foster anamosity from most of the world towards you. Think will you. Check yourself before you wreck yourself)
Anyway get over yourself and join the human race.
@GreatArticle...educated? I suppose 'mute' did get through a spell check. Please tell me of this wonderful place where you were educated...or don't. It would be a 'moot' point 'anyways'!
lol...please don't talk...it's moot not mute...so much for being well educated...
@ John Doe Its true that American Women have hate towards men.
Growing up, I was told that 75% of the people I will gradute with will be a "crab in the bucket". In American society, both men and women would try disrupt, destroy, or devastate someone they know/see because they if they aren't happen then no one else will. It doesn't make sense that we moved from a helping society to a selfish society. Because of this, most people want thier OWN which may be one factor that impede on someone's decision to be married.
Put the bong down and get your head out of your @$$! Karma is crap! Do you dance around fires and pray to clay idols too?
@ Great Article He may not be too bright, but I'll bet he knows the difference between "moot" and "mute" !
This response is to GreatArticle. GreatArticle, you imply that being educated and successful automatically makes you attractive as a woman? I might be impressed by your education and credentials and you may think of yourself as a master of the universe but if you lack warmth and affection I wouldn't be interested in you in a romantic way. The bitter tone in your writing is very unattractive.
American men do marry...just not American women. As with cars and beer, foreign is better.
you got that right ! and I thought I was the only one who was noticing that trend.
Old babes cause too much trouble, cost too much money and create too much trouble yapping b.s. on and on and on. I'm Henery the Eighth, I am,
Henery the Eighth I am, I am!
I got married to the widow next door,
She'd been married seven times before.
And every one was an Henery
She wouldn't have a Willie or a Sam
I'm her eighth old man named Henery
Henery the Eighth, I am!
Yep, I married foreign. I was living in the foreign country at the time, and it's not a knock against American women. At least...I don't think it is.
I can think of four of my coworkers who married foreign too, now that I think about it. Interesting observation...
Very witty. You nailed it on the head.
I'm an American Woman, and I married an American Man. He's four years younger than I am, and his left-braininess is the perfect complement to my right-braininess. In 2010, we celebrated our 10th anniversary. We're polar opposites in almost every way.
On the other hand, my 70-year-old dad finally found the woman of his dreams in his fourth wife – a Thai woman two years older than myself.
Whatever blows your dress up, as they say.
if you're so educated, how come you can't spell? it's `moot', not `mute'. oh, whoops, guess you're not that smart after all.
You're stupid. I know zero people who have married random foreign women. I think you just saw that on a movie or something and thought it sounded like a clever comment.
Have to agree. I married a Thai woman, simply because American women think a relationship is some sort of mind game, where each is trying to gain control. Foreign women just want romance and to be happy. It's simple.
I work in a field where most of my coworkers are educated men. Out of the 75 single or divorced men I work with almost every signle one of them is dating a foreign woman. These are men in their 30's, 40's, and 50's who have a lot to offer. However, they also have a lot to lose. Only a handful of these educated men who make very good money are dating American women. If you ask many of them if they'd ever date American again it turns into a big discussion and becomes highly animated. Almost all agree a woman from Asia, Europe, or South America is better marriage material.
I married foreign as well, but it was just the way things came together rather than by design; but I have dated North American women; sorry but I dont think it does any good to play into stereotypes – they just dont hold up to scrutiny.
I would date a foreign guy any day over an American one. They tend to be more romantic, worldy, much much much better in bed, and certainly not minding or threatened that I'm educated and make my own money. In fact, I've been engaged to twice to foreign guys. It's American guys who are afraid of commitment, but I don't care since they're not that great in bed :-/
I don't think you should stereotype. I have actually had mostly bad experiences with foreign women. The ones I dated were manipulative, cheating, damaged, deceitful sociopaths. In the same respect, some of the American girls I dated were that way too. I try to treat each person individually and not base what one person did on how I treat the next.
I am now married to an American woman who is down-to-earth and traditional. There are still some left, believe it or not. She gets a little criticism from other women for being traditional, but hey - we've been together for seven years, and I'm still mostly happy. Most of the chicks that talk down to her don't have a man that loves them, so they lose all credibility in my book.
I am all for equality - but unfortunately a lot of women think that means it is okay to be narcissistic. Any relationship requires giving, and both sides must give in order for it to work. It is NOT easy. If you think it is, then don't get in a relationship, period.
American Susie babbled "In fact, I've been engaged to twice to foreign guys. It's American guys who are afraid of commitment: LOL! Yeah. Obviously American men are the problem. Keep bringing us the laughs lady!
you're trying too hard and it shows
IT does not require a rocket scientist to tell why American men marry foreign... Just ask how much different foreign women are from the ones they just got tired dating... you know... the ones who love yanking their chains, playing mind games, etc... They will all tell you almost to a man... this same list –the same litany of complaints which makes a good number of American women just bad partners... sorry, but it is the environment and the nurturing... This insane hollywood culture that creates bridezillas, Paris Hilton and all that insanity. Some men are just fed up!
Here's my "truth".
"Men are stupid.
Women are crazy."
😉
Women are crazy because stupid men drive them to it. lol
Hey I love the easter bunny, my easter bunny brings me great presents every year, Easter Bunny aka My wife ha ha
And I am still a high school droput uneducated making $3,800,000 a year. Great for us male uneducated BUMS Thank you very much, I am turned 50 and my wife is 29, ha ha ha ha now she is educated with a Master Degree. I really one with a Doctors degree but, this one was pretty and knew her place, in my arms. ha ha ha
That may have been true from the 60's to the 90's but men are smartening up! An unmarried man 40-70 who is successful or financially secure would be stupid to marry. There are three available women for every man. Having recovered from being destroyed in court by the anti-male family court system, he will enjoy the company of women but NEVER marry again. Radical Feminism has caused this!! Ladies, when it comes to marriage, men have been a long time leaving, but they're gonna' be a long time gone.
Men are so stupid they invented 99% of the world. Woman are just so crazy, well there is no explanation there, just crazy as heIl for no reason.
no
Great Article, I think you meant "moot" (not mute) in your earlier post. You may want to make sure you're using words correctly before pontificating about your intelligence and success.
bella, she was too pre-occupied ripping everyone else, a minor oversight of course 😉
I think this article is really interesting. I know that in my personal group of friends, we are all college educated (most of us are applying to grad school this year), independent and successful young women in our early to mid 20's. Not a single one of us has marriage on our minds. Three of my best friends have been dating the same guys for about 2 or 3 years now, and while an engagement will likely come soon, none of us are in any particular rush.
In fact, most of us enjoy being able to play the field, at least I know I do, but it sounds like that's exactly the wrong thing that the author is writing about. I personally don't think I will have too much trouble finding a guy to settle down with once I actually do want to settle down. Most guys younger than about 26-27 really have no idea what they want, which is why I usually date a few years older in general. Also, if you don't causally date/hook up with different people while you're young, how are you going to know if "the one" is really the one?
I'd much rather continue casually dating and playing the field while working on my own life at the moment, than settle for someone I don't really want because I'm "supposed to be married" by now. Besides, who gets married before 25 these days anyway?
You hear that guys, this woman thinks she can make her life happy anytime she wants.....obviously you can look past her future controlling behavior and you will find a lovable woman.......just do what she says and youll be happy.........the end
You go girl! Have fun while you can. And never mind the misogynistic from the morons on CNN. They're on here berating women because they're members of that small, elite club who enjoy onanistic pleasures.
Brandi, when your biologic clock starts ringing a few years from now, you'll do what all women do. You'll wish you hadn't "played the field" all those years. And men at that point probably won't want to settle down with you.
Even if you find someone to have kids with you in your late 30s, you'll realize how much work they are how much energy you've lost due to age, and that you should have had them in your 20s.
The difference is women have a shelf-life and men just get more attractive as they get older. As a guy who is educated and successful and has not been married and does not have kids gets older, women try harder and harder to latch onto him. Women can enjoy the single life until maybe 30 before they have to find a guy to latch onto, guys can enjoy life until 40 or 50 before they can settle down and have a first round draft choice of women.
Not a bad idea to have. Although I met my husband when I was 21 (and in college), we didn't get married until I was 28 and he was 30. Like you, I was in no rush. When I got married I wanted to be 110% sure that he was the right guy. There are certain things in life that you only get to do once, so you'd darn well better try to do it right!
Homer pretty much has it right. Did you know your fertility drops by about 50% at age 30? We're going to turn into a society where babies are made in petri dishes because we are ignoring the call of nature for too long. If you just don't want children, that's fine but if you do... you'll need to plan for it sometime soon to have healthy eggs and no reproductive nightmares. I'm very much for women getting an education to provide a livelihood for themselves, as no woman should ever feel trapped in a marriage out of fear of poverty for themselves or their children. But once you have that education and a couple years of work in, it's time to have your kids before you get so entrenched in your work life that you wait too long. Your generation has a long lifespan ahead. Get an education. Have your kid(s). Raise them to about age 10, go ahead and let their Dad support you, all of you.. it's good for a marriage (worked for centuries)...and then go back to school to catch up and go back to work part time when they are in school. When they are grown, that's your time for a career. If you have 2 kids at 26, you're back at work at 36 and back to making a career outside the home at about 46. You still have a good 20 yrs to work at something you love, after doing something for love – raising your kids. Child raising is a career, folks. Staying home to take care of the family is what it's all about. Just make sure you have an education under your belt first, because stuff happens (death, divorce, illness) and an educated woman has more options. Just my .02, since really, that's what comment sections are all about. Me? I did none of this. Pregnant at 17, two kids by 20. Divorced at 30, living on a factory worker's near minimum wage pay...awful struggle... didn't go to school until I was 38. So I speak from bad experience financially but a wonderful experience of having my kids and being lucky enough to be home with them until they were 13 and 10. But had I gotten an education, we would not have struggled so badly after the divorce. Think, women! Educate, then procreate, but not too late 🙂
And, about "the one".... you don't know. It's never going to be perfect. You learn and grow together. Find someone with similar values and interests... but who makes you weak in the knees from across the room. That's "the one". The rest will work itself out with communication, respect and love.
Multiply this by about 100 million, and it extrapolates to national self-destruction on the installment plan, as if the future doesn't even exist.
@JCizzle. Exactly. I'm 40, she's 29, and after being together seven years, we just had our first kid. This is the perfect age match. I have always believed no woman should marry before 25, and no man before 35. There are very few exceptions to this rule, and I think that's the real reason behind the divorce rate.
And to all the haters: I am ripped, make good money, and have no baldness or gray - 100% natural. I I totally believe I have another 50 years in me. 😉
As the human life span increases, this is the family of today. People will wait longer to get married and have families. We are physically capable, and it just makes more sense.
brandi, that is a perfectly fine post expressing yourself and experince. i was 32 when married. i didnt have baggage, hubby didnt have baggage and 17 yrs later, our marriage is really easy, and good. you are on the right track. the men replying to you? weird. why their need to attack you says a lot about them. why their need to attack women as a whole says a lot. a thread of men puffing out their chest, on the net, lol. really odd, sad and even pathetic. doubt their is much contentment in their life.
Besides, the population needs to decline anyway. 😀
Oh spikette, the perfect hypocrite giving praise to a woman for expressing herself and her experiences and then berating the men who express themselves and their experiences. Hypocrite thy name is feminist!
oh gt... she is in no way dissing men. and men are literally attacking and insulting here. and here you sit, totally obtuse.
Hi, me again. I think a lot of the first few guys that responded misinterpreted my post. My post was not to promote promiscuity. It was more to say that since young women no longer NEED to get married young, but instead choose to educate themselves, develop their own careers and be completely independent, what's wrong with not WANTING to get married young?
As far as I'm concerned, I have way too many things to think about in my own life before even considering bringing a life partner into it. I graduate college about 3 years ago, am now working my way into my career and figuring out which grad school I want to attend. I probably won't even be living in the US in another year, so how does it make sense for me to "settle down" and get married at this point in my life? Also, to all the people that are talking about my "biological clock," for the record, I have never wanted kids, and really don't think I ever will. I've just never been a kid person.
Also, what I really don't like is the condescension in that it's not ok for me to want my life to go the way I want. I didn't put myself through school, work my ass off at my job and apply to 6 grad schools all so I could get married, pop out a few kids and be a bored, depressed housewife by the time I'm 30. No, I want to own my life. I want to travel the world, I want to work until 11 PM and not feel guilty that I'm neglecting a family. Contrary to a few of the opinions expressed on this board, women CAN have what they want, and no, I'm not "displaying future controlling behavior" just because I want to take charge of my OWN destiny.
Yes, I did say that I think it's ok to enjoy casually dating/hooking up. However, that does not make me a giant wh0re or bad person. All I was trying to get across is I think it's perfectly acceptable for young, educated, independent women to be able to play the field and date around while they still can. Why would I choose to settle down and get married when I'm not even done working on my own life yet? I don't need anyone to complete me and I don't want to complete anyone. I want me and my future partner to already be complete, but together.
There, am I really that vapid and shallow now?
Well, if you don't want kids it's a whole other ball game. If you'd mentioned that I'd have posted entirely differently. I wouldn't even think about getting married. Really. Have fun, travel. I've heard 1 in 4 women of your generation doesn't want kids. I can't fathom it but nature makes different people for different reasons. I hope your career is one that you find very fulfilling and you build a wealth of experiences. Truly. Kids aren't for everyone, and if you see they aren't for you, then I think it's admirable you aren't going to have any. This is one choice made possible for you by the women of my generation and it would be hypocritical of me to fight for your right to procreate or not procreate at your discretion and not applaud you when you decide to live a childless life. My bad for presuming anyone talking about not marrying was talking about putting off child bearing and not that she has already decided she doesn't want kids at all.
Hope life treats you well, and thanks for the learned lesson. I'm thinking I'd like to find a woman of your generation to talk to about wanting to remain childless, to understand if it's a lack of mothering instinct or just a stronger urge to succeed that outweighs it. I mean this on a purely educational level. It's so out of my realm of thought (I wanted 6 kids – only got 2) it might be good for me to stretch my mind a bit. Never too old to learn, right?
t's not a new theory: As women grow increasingly more stuck up, offering less and expecting more, their odds of finding a committed man appear to go down. Go figure.
Why are we pushing this imaginary social concept where we must end up together forever until we die? I have never met a woman I would like to spend eternity with......why oh why.......end this now......
Most, NO, ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THIS TODAY.
You can flame me now all you women, Thank you very much! lmao
It's sad that people attract certain types of people because of how they are, then they imagine all people are like the people they attract.
kazz wrote "t's not a new theory: As women grow increasingly more stuck up, offering less and expecting more, their odds of finding a committed man appear to go down."
QFT! That they then blame men goes to show you what an act their "strong woman" shtick really is. If they were truly strong (like a man) they wouldn't care. They'd go with it, enjoy their success, live their friggin lives and be happy. The fact that the opposite so regularly occurs is indicative of the entire process being a put on, being about proving something to someone. By virtue of the fact that so many men simply don't care about the "you go girl" paradigm, I'd say the 'who' they are trying to prove something to is men. That would at least explain their venomous response to men who by and large aren't impressed. It is fairly simply: Men simply don't care about a woman's status. It just doesn't matter in the bigger picture of a man's life.
Ladies, what do you know, I am the 8% of young men who are of high quality and ready to settle down. Those who intereted and call me at 867-5309.
The only reference in the article to "8%" was in regards to men over 27 who were still virgins. Is that the 8% you meant? (Love the phone number, though.)
I called and a woman by the name of Jenny picked up.
Hmm ... 867-5309 ... if you call that number in most area codes on the east coast, you'll get a plumber!
Are you in that 8% of plumbers who wear pants that actually fit?
867-5309 – who is calling this number? Do you not remember the song based on this number?
You sound like a real catch. That's why I always wear a condom.
I don't think she's supposed to be a "catch".
But you're not bitter, right? 🙂
Not at all, Kate. Honestly. Over all that. I have a great life, good job, nice toys, lots of friends, travel extensively and live in Europe.
END MARRIAGE NOW!!!!!............
I know why you're saying that: because my neighbor's kid looks like you.
This article seems to say: "Guys that girls shouldn't really want to be involved with are becoming less available."
...
Not really sure what the problem is there.
youll find out eventually
The problem is both men and women are looking for A – A+ partners, when the average person is a C.
Actually some are not even "C" level. More like, "Incomplete".
It is amazing how people DON"T care about how to act towards the other person, self-centered people, just me me me, igborant as hell, where do these people come from and who help them become complete immature kids at 30 and 40?
I hear things on the train going home, WOW, if I heard that from my wife, she would have three black eyes, people only have two, so relax.
Marriage is no place for a decent man to end up. He'll be eaten alive.
Fortunately, women think that 80% of men are below average in attractiveness and nearly all decent men fit this profile.
Aaamen! Most people are looking for grade A's when they are grade C's themselves... or Incomplete as some put it. It is unrealistic and ridiculous expectations that keep people from finding happiness in this world. but you know... karma is always around the corner... that trophy spouse you got? there usually is something wrong with them. That's the cause of so many divorces. People only look at the packaging. Once that packaging hits 200+ pounds... let the hairballs fly and the divorces come... Most relationships are only based on ideas of how cool they would look in a magazine... but not real life.
Ask any normal thinking guy, "do you want to get married?" He'll look @ you like you're totally nuts. Why? Simple. 99% OF women today are fearless, not scared of getting divorced. This means all efforts the guy invests into the marriage resulting in divorce ends with AT LEAST 50% WRITE OFF. So why get married? PLUS, in addition, alienation of affection with kids, friends, family etc. There is NO WAY any normal thinking guy "wants to get married", it's a real risky proposition. She smiles, twirls her hair, squeezes out a tear drop and the guy is toast. So, no way Jose, hold the line with booty calls, call girls, hooks ups, etc no problem. Marriage.......it's an old Joke for feeble minded dudes who have no backbone, can't cook and aren't able to get any action. Kids? In America.....you gotta be nuts. 1/2 the kids are nuts, on drugs, psychos, shooting up people at strip malls, school yards, etc. Adopt a kid from Sally Summers.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You must know like 1 person to assume to speak for 99 percent of the male population and come up with that conclusion. I know tons of never-married younger men who want to get married just as much as the young women I know, maybe even more.
Aragorn, I was just thinking the same thing. Most people in my profession, both guys and ladies in their early thirties practicing law, absolutely look at marriage as an unnecessary rite that is used only to create another barrier to destroy a relationship. From my experience, it is the innate responsibility that parents have towards offspring that creates a decades-long bond. Of course, plenty of exceptions abound, thankfully so.
Until divorce is made fair for men, men should fear marriage.
REALLY? My wife will be the first to tell you she wouldn't have married me in the first place if I let her rule me. I'm also a better cook than she is. (However, I DON'T have the balls to tell her THAT, since I want her to keep cooking my dinner every night! 😉 )
You know, I totally understand why so many guys are scared to get married. We DO live in a society in which the family courts are unfairly biased towards women. I know I took a big risk by tying the knot, but I also dated my wife for years before doing so. For me, marriage was a demonstration of honoring our relationship and showing her that I love her completely and am willing to go to whatever length necessary to keep her in my life. I also know her very, very well. I know that the last thing she wants is for my son to not have a father around. She knows that I take care of her physically, financially, and emotionally, and that I am a great father. She also strongly believes in fidelity and the family unit - so unless I do something to totally screw this up, she's not going anywhere. Now she's not perfect. One thing about her that irks me is that sometimes she doesn't know when to shut the hell up. However, I have learned to tune her out periodically. That helps keep our marriage good and happy. 🙂 Yes, women. We do that, so GET OVER IT.
So anyway, I totally understand why most men in America don't want to get married. But at the same time, these reasons are not true in EVERY case. I got lucky - but if I had not met this wonderful gal, you can bet I'd be vacationing in Brazil for a while, to sample some treasures elsewhere!
Agarron
You nailed it. Decent, intelligent men have been moving away from marriage for more than a decade. Little to gain and almost unlimited risk.
One of the unfortunate details left out of this article is the growing number of us who don't care about marriage and refute the idea that we're 'supposed' to marry (while still having full, happy and statistically much healthier lives). Another detail left out, women who marry live shorter lives, men who marry live longer. The only ones who benefit from marriage are men, it would make for an interesting article to pursue the possibility that the reason we are increasingly not interested in marriage is...we're starting to figure that out.
How in the hell does marriage benefit a man?
@charlie - Married men report themselves as being happier, for one. They're also healthier, live longer, have more friends, and earn more than unmarried men. The benefits for women, ironically, are not as great... though I think that will change as today's young marrieds age. Marriage was a completely different ball game 50 years ago, and there are a loooot of elderly widows counting the days until their grouchy, selfish, lazy husbands kick it and they can finally live for themselves again.
Yes, it's true that marriage benefits men more so than women- statistics show that men are happier and healthier when they are married. Women, not so much...
And no, there is no double standard when it comes to sleeping around. No woman wants to date a man who has slept around, either. A man that has had a bevy of partners isn't "macho" or "a real man". I wouldn't want a man who's wh*red it up and I wouldn't look at him as relationship material either. If you're loosey-goosey, you're loosey-goosey. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman.
Exactly, LEB!
I KNOW my wife is a very happy woman. Maybe it's because I listen to her (when she's not nagging :-)), try to be aware of when I'm screwing up, talk to her, take her out on dates, feed and play with our baby, change his diapers, go to work every day, etc....
When those studies were done, it was during a different era. I'll even give you an example. A couple of weekends ago, my parents visited. I asked my dad if he wanted to hold his grandson, and he came up with a lame excuse. The truth is, he still has this macho belief that it's unmanly to hold a baby. I think this is common among Baby Boomer men. I have no problem hugging my son, kissing his cheek, telling him I love him. And as a result, he grins from ear to ear every day when he sees me coming through that door after work. There is absolutely nothing unmanly about letting your kids know you love them - especially in this hateful world they must endure every day.
This new generation of men doesn't have a problem with women's rights, and we WANT to be there for our kids. However, family courts are grossly against us. Many of the women out there are narcissistic and have no concept of giving anything. The result is many kids born out of wedlock, and many broken homes. This is a problem that crosses all racial and socioeconomic lines. The fact is, people get divorced, sure. But women want to have their cake and eat it too. If you want to be treated as equals, then don't cry about taking half a man's check just because you don't live in the same house anymore. If men could feel safer about being married, then more people would get married and stay married. And just because he doesn't want to live with you anymore doesn't mean he doesn't care about his kids. Father's rights need to be protected too!
@RS
My parents divorced when I was 13. My mother (an elementary school teacher) probably made about 1/20th of the income my dad did at the time. Of course she stayed home with me to raise me while I was a kid, while my dad worked (professional) and I never saw him. My dad never paid a cent of alamony OR child support. Maybe you live in a different state, but my experience has been quite the opposite. Time to drop the stereotypes and generalizations,
@cnncorrespondent:
I am really sorry about your parents' situation. However, there are also many cases in which men are automatically presumed guilty until proven innocent. I have experienced this myself. I would post the details of my experience here, but unfortunately it would be about 10 paragraphs long. If you indeed work for CNN, then you can probably see my email address, in which case you have my permission to email me directly for more details. 😉
The bad ones made it hard for the rest of us. I believe there are a lot of good men out there that have been victimized by the court system. I think what really needs to happen is that fathers organize and become a political force. Until then, it won't change.
LEB
@charlie – Married men report themselves as being happier, for one. They're also healthier, live longer, have more friends, and earn more than unmarried men.
That only applies to the 5% of men who marry successfully and don't have a wife who then decides to cash in via divorce.
Other married men are either desperate or divorced and both groups fare rather poorly compared to single men.
Besides, a single man is likely far ahead earning less than half what his married peer earns. Women spend that much and the fact is, these single men don't earn nearly that much less.
Eh, personally if I know a girl randomly hooks up with guys there's no way I'd be involved in a relationship with her. I think most guys feel the same way, most men love hooking up with easy women but those men almost certainly would seriously never date them.
Two words: double standard.
Why is it acceptable for guys to "hook up" but it isn't acceptable for women to behave the same way? You want to have multiple partners, but when it comes to settling down, you want a virgin? You want "easy women" to play around with, but you would never date them seriously?
If there is any justice (I'm dreaming here), perhaps you'll find a nice woman who didn't"hook up," but since you did, she won't want your tired sorry a$$.
Well, you're right there is a double standard but it doesn't apply to me since I see no point in hooking up with women that I don't know or care about.
Let me respond with an analogy:
A key that opens many locks is called a master key. A lock that is opened by many keys is called a crappy lock.
Kate: because women love womanizing men. They tend to go after the most charming man around a la Sandra Bullock.
Just so you know, since apparently some women don't realize this, a man bases his value of a woman on how easy she is to have intercourse with. If she's easy, he doesn't value her at all though he may act like he does in order to keep having intercourse with her. If a man tries to hook up with you or leaves you because you won't hook up with him then he's not looking for a relationship, if he were looking for a relationship he would respect for you for making him wait and he will value you more. Men view women in two ways, is she just a fun time or is she relationship material. The easier you are the more likely you will fall into the first category.
and ditto that for women
Kate sounds like the one who is bitter. Also, she is basing her who argument on 1950s views.
No, there is no double standard when it comes to sleeping around. No woman wants to date a man who has slept around, either. A man that has had a bevy of partners isn't "macho" or "a real man". I wouldn't want a man who's wh*red it up and wouldn't look at him as relationship material either. If you're loosey-goosey, you're loosey-goosey. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman.
@Edward and Kate, since I'm really loving this intelligent discussion:
I think there is a biological reason for this (as with most human behavior). The bottom line is that the guy wants to know that when that chick gets pregnant, and he has to spend $$$$ and years caring for that baby, IT IS HIS.
I know, I know...there is nothing stopping that woman that made YOU work so hard for it from cheating on you during a one-nighter with the stud down the street. But who said human behavior was logical?
Close your legs and the right one will come around.
haha that's funny. That's what I'm all about.. people seem wayyyy too easy these days and while I am waiting till after marriage for the first time, I'm not judging others.. Just saying if you're gonna play the field, do so at least somewhat more respectfully and with more class.. If you're thinking about raising a family soon, think about if you would like your kids to emulate your current behavior. Nothing more, nothing less.
Then what do you do when you find out that your marital partner sucks in bed?
@LEB – Then you have an awfully long time to practice. Shucks darn.
I was a virgin who married a virgin. We're doing juuuuuuuust fine.
....Dick Morris has a great idea on his column today...Congress passes the debt ceiling increase..BUT..with a $100 Billion in Gvt.Cuts in spendig attached ( the typical dem trick) and increased for only 3 months. ...When 3 monts up...do the same thing again..this time include Obamacare major cuts along with Fed. Gvt. cuts.....Obama would be in a pickle....sign and turn the left Max. against him or don't sign and shut down Gvt. ( my prefrred plan until spending cut to 2006 levels Now).....
Ted–I think you're lost.
and in other news, how about dem Jets?
Um... you do know this is an article about people and their relationsips, right? Not them "libs," politics, etc?
What is the percentage of 40 year old virgins?
cougars... cool
Life is easier being single. I can't wait for my boyfriend to leave my place after a few days together. There's nothing like having your own space and having your man over when you want some intimacy and go home when you want your solitude. How nice life can be with options.
That's probably because you weren't brought up properly. I don't know how old you are (the older the more difficult to adjust) but sounds to me it might be too late for an adjustment. Forget marriage as it won't work for you. You could change your life around though ...
Yes, your happiness is because you weren't raised properly. That makes all kinds of sense.
Amen, I agree totally and I was most certainly raised very right AND I'm a Christian AND I was raised in a Christian home, but some of us are not meant for marriage. That doesn't mean we are supposed to be nuns for the love of Pete.
While I agree with this article, I must add that it was very tough staying focused on career as a young man. All the "girls just want to have fun" crowd thought my dedication was "boring." Lots of lonesome nights and awkward dates. After getting my PhD at 26 things changed and I started to meet women, mostly well-educated, who seemed more respectful and interested. By 28 I was married and have been for 30 years. Love my job and my life now but I still remember how very tough it was to study alone instead of partying. Perhaps the message here is to stay on target and it will pay off. Hang in there guys!
Your comment is seriously the best one among these.. I can tell you actually spoke from your mind rather than not compared to more than 3/4 of these comments. I'm very happy for you! 🙂
You're living proof that doing things in the right order works!
Great story...one piece of advice for any other guys who experiencing what you went through: no need to be lonely and without s3x during your educational sojourn...that's what escorts are for. Women's bodies are always for sale. Use a condom and you'll be fine. No need to be without a piece once and a while while you're pursuing all those degrees.
Lots of immorality here. Anyone out there know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?
I'm not sure ... why don't you hum a few bars of it?
Balto Paul... Nice
Sure, He's from the same place as the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
I believe he's also roomies with Santa. Or maybe that's his daddy...
Is this what they mean when they say "we'll know we are Christians by our love"? Or is this just a piece of judgment on the world that makes you feel good about yourself?
Your morals are not universal Dan. Shut your pie hole.
I think you people are just too stupid to realize this is a fake post.
One problem about not marrying early is you are generally not getting any more attractive (physically) as you age. This goes for both men and women. Generally I think marrying is less healthy, because once you are married you generally are not trying to keep yourself in shape and healthy in order to attract a partner. Much of the time being married leads to having children, and generally that hurts not only your physical appearance, but it complicates developing new relationships. So simply going on common sense, if you want to get married your best chance is to do it young, which increases your chance of divorcing which greatly cripples your chance of getting married again. Thus it's better to do it right the first time, even it it means waiting, then to jump in when you are not ready.
The reality women detest. Understandably, but it's spot-on. Ever has it been, ever it shall be, and for most men not just me. That also includes, say, 97% of the men who claim not to feel that way.
If marrying young is "common sense," then how do you explain why women who marry under 25 have almost a 2 in 3 chance of getting divorced, where as women wait until at least 30 have less than a 1 in 7 chance? When it comes to marriage, older is actually better.
That's age stereotyping. The best people, like a fine wine, improve with age. The presumption that youth is the ideal and virtuous state, and that age is decrepit and evil by definition, is a whine that has nothing fine about it.
Exactly, Sally!
OMG! That is so true! I am single in a committed relationship. A lot of my friends and schoolmates on Fakebook look terrible. After a few kids and marriage, they are balding, have horrible gingivitic gums and rotting teeth, seriously overweight, have health problems... everyone who you thought was 'cool' back in the day just hasn't aged well... I fear to know what my female colleagues look like now... The single ones on Fakebook... they look great. But the married ones don't show up...
another amazingly stupid "conclusion"
Men are no different from women in the fact that they get married and settle down when they want to get married and settle down. Sometimes it happens at 25, sometimes at 35, sometimes at 45. It takes the right time and the right person. The difference is that women avoid settling down and getting married and have kids at 25 because that is what their mom did and they have issues with being a housewife/giving up their career for marriage and a family...until they are 5 years from menopause and already in need of $15k worth of IVF treatments just to have a child, then suddenly it's all they can think about. Men don't have that problem....the problem they have is ending-up divorced and single at 45 and paying alimony to an ex-wife and child-support for 3 kids. Thus the "issue".
The issue is the same state of existence looks different for women than it does for men.
This "study" is nothing more than an attempt to paper over that issue.
Probably some postgrad female who refuses to face the limits of her own mortality.
SO why is the man worried about paying child support for 3 kids? Aren't they his kids too? If he doesn't want to pay child support, he can take up full custody of the kids, of course that might be a problem when he re-enters the dating scene and brings home girls young enough to be his daughter!
@jc – because a man needs to have money to get a woman. If his wife leaves him because she got from him what she wants, kids, and leaves him with a fraction of his resources, he doesn't have many options of being happy alone, let alone finding someone who won't abandon him.
@jc – I wish you'd tell my ex-wife that. My daughter's been living at home (i.e. with me) for almost a year now, and the ex has paid exactly zero in child support. She has found the time to get knocked up twice with two different men since then, though. It seems to me that your moral high horse is a bit more of a donkey, really. The problem is simple: the courts have a heavy female bias; but there was no way in hell I was going to let my daughter be raised by a lunatic – so there goes my life savings, but my child is safe. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either ignorant or a liar. Moral of the story: although there are many of us "family men" out there, finding a like minded woman is next to impossible. The vast majority of my married friends are now divorced (and we were the "nice guys" back in college), with the notable exception being the one who married a woman he met in Europe. Sorry ladies, but you placed the fear of god in us yourselves; now live with it – from a man's perspective, getting married in the US is tantamount to playing roulette where you have a 1 in 50 chance of winning; the other player's got a 49 in 50. Why bother playing? Hear me young guys, for I speak from experience...
So true and yet many do not see the plain fact that women always want more money and never appreciate what they have untiil it is GONE.
@ Amperex
Amen to that, brother
I disagree with this article's premise that women are more moral than men. My experience is that women are inherently more selfish than men. Too many woman only want a man to father their children and bring his paycheck home to her so she can take it easy, then divorce him and collect alimony.
You got it, short and sweet. Right on brother.
And not just 'too many', most men would rather marry these women because they are cute and fun and hot. The other types are not 'marriage material' because they are ugly and boring. I I suppose the men are just paying for the 'show pieces' they want for themselves
Nonsense. Men want their daughters to be able to get a good mate just as women want from their sons. Everyone prefers an attractive mate. It just so happens that men want women who are youthful and sane, whereas women want men who are strong and have resources.
Exactly, women are far more selfish and the glass is always half empty.
"The difference is that women avoid settling down and getting married and have kids at 25 because that is what their mom did and they have issues with being a housewife/giving up their career for marriage and a family...until they are 5 years from menopause and already in need of $15k worth of IVF treatments just to have a child, then suddenly it's all they can think about. "
To top it off a womans' ability to have children drops off so rapidly, and the male ability to father a healthy child without Downs' syndrome also, that pretty-much the only women who are able to even have this perspective are those whose mothers had children early in life, at least by 28 or 30. My guess is that most women of older mothers race to have children in their early 20s. Most if not all of us go out of our way to avoid the "mistakes" of our parents, and they are a matter of perspective.
I have no idea where you're getting your facts about as a woman gets older the risk for a baby with Down syndrome "RAPIDLY" increases... even women in their 20's have a risk for having a child with Down syndrome, and that risk just steadly increases as age goes up, but there is no rapid increase just because you are older... a very steady curve. And even for a woman who has a child over 45, her risk for having child with Down syndrome is only 4%. Yes, it may be harder for women to get pregnant as they get older, but it's a common myth that older women have no chance of having a 'healthy child'. And just to throw it out there, if the woman is under the age of 18 there are whole set of health risks to the baby that exist too.
Whatever. I like my women weak and dumb.
Amen, bro.
Well if that is all you can handle, good for you for admitting that.
Was speaking with one of the young girls in the office the other day who recently graduated with a BA and she said rather nonchalantly that she had four different booty calls. I asked her how many different guys she had been with and she said she stopped counting after the first fifty.
She saw absolutely nothing wrong with this behavior. I told her when she eventually gets married the number of partners she has had would likely be a significant issue. Who wants to marry someone that sleeps with anyone she meets?
No one wants to marry these supposedly educated women because they have no decency or dignity. I can't begin to imagine someone who has slept with so many people will ever be a faithful partner.
I wholeheartedly agree. If someone was so promiscuous, what would make their partner believe they would remain faithful to them? It's really quite a shame.
A woman who is proud of her number of booty calls would be like a man being proud of beating up a woman. In other words, a woman getting some takes about as much effort as a man to inflict injury on a woman in a fight. I am sorry that woman in your office is another post modern brainwashed American feminist with no self respect.
Perhaps I have been aay too long but what is a "booty call"?
A guy having that many partners is gross, too. If a guy has slept with 50+ women, he's almost guaranteed to have some kind of venereal disease and/or an angry babymama somewhere.
@Deppe: A "booty call" is the toddler's version of talking on Maxwell Smart's shoephone.
@ LEB: Agreed!
Suddenly, all those guys that were shot down because someone was waiting for something 'better'(whatever qualified as better was at the time) might look just a liiiiitttle better now.
Marriage is no longer a necessity for many women. I didn't get married until I was 40 years old, and if anything ever happens to my husband I wouldn't remarry because I doubt I'd find another man like him. I don't need a man to earn all the money, I earn money. I need a man to be my equal partner, and those guys are still not that easy to find. Many of us can be perfectly happy without marriage, or kids. There is no shortage of men to sleep with if that's what we want, and there's way more to life than getting married and birthing babies.
so true!
Completely agree.
In other words, "it's all about you". Base and shallow, your relative happiness is centered around your own needs and whims, with no respect for how you can create something beautiful and wonderful in conjunction with someone else. Contrast that with couples that you see that have been happily married for half a century or more. Our society has lost the ability to truly bond and connect with anybody, so self-centered and self-involved we are with the convenience of limitless choices and instant or short term gratification. There's the real reason that many can't or won't admit.
Ding-ding! That's right Kathryn! Well said 🙂
No, I think GwT was right on this one...
I also agree with Kathryn. I can pay my own way, and do. My intent has always been to remain child-free. It's hard to find an ethical man who shares my sense of adventure and inquisitiveness, so I'm enjoying my life as is.
Another foolish article with flawed statistics to back it.
I would be willing to bet that a woman who waits until age 40 to find a life partner has worse odds of finding one whether her reasons were career and education or her dedication to honing her bowling skills. By 40, most of the people who want a life partner have found one, so her pool is down to the strange, the socially inept, some used merchandise, or Ashton Kutcher, if that's not being redudant.
A guy who waits until his 40s to find a life partner faces a much smaller pool of possible mates as well. He just has a few years of advantage over his female counter-part due to that whole "child bearing age" thing.
An advancing society encourages its most intelligent and dynamic men to marry or even to be polygamous in fact if not by law, and to have children. In America, the most intelligent and dynamic men are crucified, and the men who are most encouraged and subsidized insofar as de facto polygamous marriage and siring children, are those who are the poorest material when it comes to being a husband or a father. The only way to reverse this situation is to completely privatize public education and eliminate public school taxes, eliminate all functions of the Federal Government except for national defense, and reform our court system by professionalizing the jury pool.
Actually, recent studies show that a man's sperm is not that good after age 45. So, men have a "shelf life", albeit slightly longer than women, for child bearing also.
Hey! Ashton Kutcher's career is looking a helluva lot better than Demi's right now!
As a guy I'm a huge fan of women, and my insights as an objective observer have led to one conclusion; Women want to have their cake and eat it too. Men have always known that those females we were most attracted to were the most likely to cause emotional pain and upheaval. Perhaps the burgeoning independent female is disillusioned by her undefined role in modern society? It's no secret that the gangster's and bad-boys are the least likely to love and support you physically, emotionally, and intellectually. If women want to complain about the various negative aspects of the male gender, they ought to ask an average, non-alpha male his take on the inexplicable and often-times callous behavior of suitable females.
You're confused about what an alpha male is. Alphas are people a group has given power to because they've proven they'll use that power to benefit the group. These disrespectful, abusive young punks and criminals you see women chase after are as beta as it gets. A real alpha male (a powerful, confident leader in his profession or community) would be far too intimidating for these hookup hobbyists to chase after.
"the inexplicable and often-times callous behavior of suitable females."
Well said
The comment started off nice, but lost me with the false illustration of "alpha male" and the statement, "the inexplicable and often-times callous behavior of suitable females."
Isn't that oxymoronic. I mean, if a woman's behavior is inexplicable and callous, how in the world could she be suitable.
Alpha males have no such attributes... but the argument is a red herring. You miss his point completely Cook.
really? 2 days ago I saw an article on CNN about how men were the new ball & chain.... And women felt they were doing themselves a dishonor by being married... Today men have the power and women are sitting around wishing they had a man? Something is fishy here with CNN's agenda, which I have interrupted as being some weird feminist agenda. Which I have to say I find amusing... Single mothers have grown up listening to some oddball agenda about not needing a man and all men are abusive... Take a consistently augmentative and combative stance with the fathers of their babies... Lack any discretion and parade a slew of of different men in front of their kids... And then wonder why their lives and their kids lives are messed up.... There's a commercial out there that cracks me up that I think does a great job of portraying the typical mental state of mind... It's a State Farm insurance commercial. The guy sings the State Farm song and gets his insurance agent there, and the girlfriend says "And a new boyfriend" and her dream man appears... and the man says "And a new girlfriend" and a hot woman appears... And suddenly the girlfriend is mad because she thought she was perfect and didn't deserve to be replaced. Its simple... You get out of life what you put into life! All these women that are upset that men apparently have the "upper hand", at least according to this report need to grow up and get over themselves
LMAO... LOL
Everything in the media today is pro-women. "You go girl", etc. kind of stuff. Just look at any daytime TV show. It's really creepy. Is it any wonder more women than men are graduating from college? If a guy studies science he's a boring geek. If a chick studies science she's a superhero. Of course, mostly womenwatch these shows so it's a case of pandering to a mostly female audience. Still it's too much. Men are taught to help and support women, and women are taught to disparage and distrust men. And it starts early, just think that all the elementary school teachers are women educated at typically liberal teachers colleges steeped in sixties vintage feminist mentality which is anti -male. Boys are screwed before they even get to middle school. Told they are ADHD and given a bunch of brain altering drugs just because a female teacher is resentful of , confused by, and intimidated by a young boy's energy.
Ted Ward – you are so right! Write your Congressmen, and tell them to abolish public education financed by taxpayers' responsibility, and replace it with a privatized education system financed by father's responsibility. That's the only thing that can put the feminist hobgoblin back in the bottle, and bring America back to life.
And here's a piece of trivia...
The "perfect boyfriend" that magically appeared is the same guy that played Eggs Benedict on True Blood. 😉
Ted Ward – You nailed it. You are absolutely right.
Sounds like "Bubba" is having a hard time with the new reality. How Cliche'....
Of course he's not bitter, he's still hooking up with the next crop of immoral young women. He'd be bitter if he was married.
Sure, The Great Invisible All-Judging SkyDaddy's right up there alongside the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
Not everyone thinks the universe 'felt' one day to explode in the big bang and form everything. Prove that the cause & effect law was broken when this universe 'decided' one moment to appear magically out of the nothingness of space and then you will probably have an argument, if you can...
sky daddy.. AHAHAHA!
hahahahahahahahaha
Isn't this good news? I thought all men were oppressive, selfish, narcissistic jerks who only cared about their own satisfaction and didn't put the toilet seat down.
THAT makes me laugh....... I do not feel that way.....but that was funny
Very well put, I wish I'd known that in my 20's. Late 40's now, happily divorced (her filing of course), see kids occasionally and struggling financially. If I'd stayed single, oh boy the life I could have had..... "Doing the right thing" by marrying in your 20's and providing for a wife and kids is outdated. Women are selfish and have unrealistic expectations. Men get screwed royally in divorce. I'm living proof.
the problem with people nowadays is that most of their love is more hormone induced rather than special induced. if you dress like a $lut anyone will take you for a few days, after a few days they get sick of you and divorce you for monayyy.
Lest we forget our patriarchal society drove "American" women to be what they are today. Objectified, Used, and then tossed to the side for the next in line.
It's not about men vs. women, it's about the direction in which our society decides to socialize each gender in order to cause a constant divide.
Introspect people! We are all individuals capable of making our own choices!
and to all those grammar nazis, get over the misspellings etc., and get the point. You're grabbing at straws because you have nothing better to say.
Right MISS G, we are all capable of making our own choices, so lets quit blaming society for everything. No one puts a gun to the heads of the young women in America and forces them to dress skimpy or be passed around like party favors. Most of that comes from lashing out or attempting to fill some emotional void due to bad parenting.
nicely stated
oh, well look who pulled out their "victim" card....is that the best you've got?
Screw the money – I just want some new tang
Women talk about how bad men when they don't even trust other women. Example: you can ask a female why don't you have any female friends?' And they answer,'I don't hang around too many females cuz all they do is pick and try to take your man' So how can a man trust and love a woman when they don't even trust each other?
as men reach their mid thirties and beyond, if they take care of themselves physically and career wise – they'll be gettin chicks till they die. hot young ones too
women on the other hand, try to act like they too good for a lot of people then when that same age comes around they're like OMG IM GETTING UGLY AND WILL HIT MENOPAUSE and settle for whatever dude can support them no matter how much of a lamer he is
therefore, men have more power.
Ka-CHING!
An ugly man in a Ferrari... is the most attractive man in the world...
An ugly woman in a Ferrari... is just an ugly woman.
karma for arrogant males and females. males have to pay, women have to move away
People working 55 hours a week have a hard time sustaining a relationship? Incredible.
I am divorced and date cougars. They are my age.
Oh look...another pitiful crybaby article written by a western feminist. This article/mindset is the reason why many men are swearing off of marriage in record numbers too.
Oh look, another crybaby man complaining that women are human beings and many won't conform to his fantasy.
@Thinks2010 – No, you're wrong. Oh so very wrong. There is no incentive for the average man to get married these days. None. The cards are stacked against you, and it takes a helluva alot of courage (and money) to stand up to a woman in divorce/custody court – where the majority of marriages end up. Most of the divorced guys I know have the courage but not the financial means. They just give up. And the kids suffer – what was that old joke – "During a divorce hearing, a judge suspects the wife of lying. He sternly warns her, "Ma'am, do you know what will happen if you lie during these proceedings?" To which the woman wipes a crocodile tear from her eye, looks up and says, "Yes, your honor. I'll get exactly what I want."" QED.