January 11th, 2011
06:20 PM ET

Human Factor: Faith, miracles and a new reach

In the Human Factor, Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces you to survivors who have overcome tremendous odds. Confronting a life obstacle – injury, illness or other hardship – they tapped their inner strength and found resilience they didn’t know they possessed. Be inspired by their successes, as we have been.

My name is Darline Bertil. I am 25 years old. I was born and raised in Port-au Prince, the capital of Haiti, which was the epicenter of the earthquake. Before this devastating earthquake, my life was quite normal. I attended school, church and lived a productive life.

On the afternoon of January 12, 2010, I was at work when at 4 p.m. I felt the ground start to shake. My coworkers and I were startled and wondered what was going on. We decided to check our surroundings and saw that the counters of the bar were blocking us in. The building had collapsed in less than 30 seconds. We had no outside contact and ended up trapped there for days.

We prayed for deliverance and felt hopeless, asking God for forgiveness. We  feared that it was the end of the world. During this time I was also trapped by the concrete, and I could not feel my arms. Later I was told that when I was rescued I was unconscious.

The day I was rescued by several American soldiers, they took me on a medical boat called the “USNS Comfort.” I never thought I would see another day.

What I want people to know is that with God all things are possible and to believe in miracles. Without faith and courage I would have not survived.

I lost my arms in this tragedy and now face my biggest challenge, which is to adjust to life with no upper limbs, and a limp on my right leg.

The hardest moments for me were the realization that I had lost both my arms. In life there are circumstances that we face that we cannot change. My country as in many has flaws but one thing I would advocate for is equality for the disabled.

 If you don’t take anything else from my story please know that life is precious. What we take for granted can be gone in a matter of seconds, cherish the people in your life and live life to the fullest. Tomorrow's not promised!!

Human Factor appears on "SGMD," 7:30 a.m. Saturday-Sunday

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  1. thes33k3r

    I am sincerely happy that you survived what will most likely be the toughest obstacle of your life. I agree that life is precious and that we should live life to the fullest. I know that it was a tremendous tragedy for you to lose your arms. I mean that with everything that I am. I wish that none of us ever had to suffer but unfortunately that is how the universe is. I really wish you the best in the rest of your journey we call life.

    What I don't agree with is your claim that the god you believe in played a role in saving you or anyone else. Over 200,000 people died and many more were injured and made homeless due to a natural disaster which we have to assume, according to your logic, was caused by or could have been prevented by your god. This should give anyone who is religious pause. If you believe in a god that can intervene in human affairs then you must accept that this god could have prevented the earthquake. You cannot have it both ways.

    If every individual involved in the relief effort including American soldiers had simply stayed home and prayed to your god then you almost certainly would have died. You were saved by humanism and modern technology which is a fruit of science....not faith. You take away from this great aspect of human existence when you attempt to attribute it to a supernatural being whom we have no logical reason to believe exists in the first place.

    Before everyone decides to respond by calling me a heartless non-believer, please take a minute to think about what I wrote in the first paragraph. And if you have any "faith" in logic, then you should be willing to think about the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.

    January 12, 2011 at 00:45 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Patrick

      You're making too much sense. The average human mind can not handle it. I for one and getting tire of all these CNN faith articles. Faith is reserved for those who lack the will and courage to face the world as it is. It's a weakness of the mind.

      January 12, 2011 at 07:20 | Report abuse |
    • D2C

      To try to explain her faith to you would be pointless because you've already decided that her "god" wouldn't have allowed such tragedies to happen. God never said bad things wouldn't happen and He's not in the business of shielding us from everything, but if we put our faith in Him, things will work out as they're suppose to. Sorry, but things aren't just cut-and-dry and black-and-white as you would like (hence the many explainable things of this world). However, if you're happy with your unbelief, then more power to you.

      January 12, 2011 at 09:45 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To D2C:
      Go ahead and explain her faith to me. I'm all ears. While you're at it, bring forward the evidence that supports her god or your god as opposed to the other 6000 or so gods that humans have worshiped in the known history of our existence. Do you believe in Jesus as do roughly 2 billion people? If so, get busy proving why he is god and the other 5 billion of us (Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, non-believers etc.) have got it all wrong. You know that your faith is not evidence-based. If you had all the evidence then you wouldn't have any need for faith, now would you?

      I always find the following exchange interesting:
      Non-believer: There's no logical reason to believe in any gods.
      Religious person: god exists AND I know the mind of god (such as your comments about what god said and what god is not in the business of doing). Pretending to know the mind of god....shame on you.

      Your last point is a logical fallacy, specifically an Argument from Ignorance. You stated that "things aren't just cut-and-dry....hence the many explainable things of this world". I believe you meant "unexplainable". This is typical of someone whose brain is awash in faith. Basically, you are saying that if we don't know the answer then god did it. You need to be willing to admit that this is not an honest position from which to make an argument.

      January 12, 2011 at 12:44 | Report abuse |
    • Suzi

      Thank you for a very well thought out and executed post.

      January 12, 2011 at 12:52 | Report abuse |
    • kelly tanner

      God Bless You! Yours is the way of the weak how much harder it would be for her to push forward, instead of turning to man made gods. We all worship, the difference with her is she is knows whom she worships. Shame on all you cynical, angry people. We all suffer, why must yours be smarter and more informed. My prayers for you will not cease today, So be aware of miracles.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:14 | Report abuse |
    • momto2

      This is the first time I am replying on this forum. Kudos to you for giving the credit for bravery and kindness to humanism and modern technology. Excellent post!!

      January 12, 2011 at 13:25 | Report abuse |
    • Kallen

      If everyone in America prayed to the one and only God, you would not be making comments you would be in awe of what the one true God can do through prayer. If it were left up to science only, she would have surely died.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:47 | Report abuse |
    • slamere

      Wow, you are an axxhole! This woman goes through a tragedy like this and explains how her faith in God helped her through it. All you can do is point out the inconsistencies in her belief system? I just wish we were all as smart as you and had the world completely figured out. I really hope you never need faith or compassion in your life.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:00 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Suzi and momto2:
      Thanks for the supportive comments.

      To kelly tanner:
      Were you intentionally trying to not make sense? I'm having a hard time discerning as to whether you support my statements or you disagree with them. By the way, all gods are man-made. And no, we don't "all worship" an imaginary supernatural being. And what do you mean by asking "why must yours be smarter and more informed?" If you are saying that I am smarter and more informed, then what does that say about your arguments?

      You said "be aware of miracles." I say be aware of logic, reason, science and evidence.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:08 | Report abuse |
    • Parlemort

      Bravo to thes33k3r. I totally agree. Their response is always vicious attack and/or pity. And, of course, the classic and very handy "we must put all our faith In him and ask no questions" excuse. Thanks for your post!

      January 12, 2011 at 14:20 | Report abuse |
    • mpads

      Well said thes33k3r
      Those who are not atheist in this forum – how sure are you that she believes in the Christian God? She may be worshipping a God from a different religion – who is not a He but a SHE ( a Female)..

      January 12, 2011 at 14:23 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To slamere:
      Thanks for the supportive comments. When you resort to name-calling, you undermine your own argument. You make the mistake of assuming that when someone plays the faith card then that person can not be criticized. When someone tells me that they are a "person of faith", that tells me that they are willing to believe almost anything without evidence. That is a position which is not worthy of my respect.

      I am not claiming that I have "the world completely figured out". I am stating that, as Carl Sagan put it, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

      January 12, 2011 at 14:54 | Report abuse |
    • CD

      It is difficult to have the conversation with you about God because you are so negative against Him and the possibility of Him. With no preconceived notions I ask that you read those whom have studied and analyzed the faith in a single God, most possibly Christianity as she is most likely referring to it. If you did, you would having a greater understanding of how God acts in the world. Man brought sin to the world through his arrogance and lack of faith in God.

      God has never said He would protect everyone from the dangers of the world and of physical death. You would argue that is cruel. But dying is going to happen because of the infiltration of sin. Dying by a heart attack or earthquake is therefore no different. Death is death.

      This woman prayed to God. If God didn't answer her prayer then you could argue why did she survive and others did not?

      January 12, 2011 at 15:30 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      My brothers & sisters, of the natural human family, we are one & connected to all life. Not through the metaphysical & imaginary, but through the true state of life as a creative force acting unknowingly against entropy & dissolution. It is measurable, yet it is infinite. It is collaborative, yet it is coincidental. It is the absolute truth – and 'god' has nothing to do with it.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:36 | Report abuse |
    • Azariah

      It's a pity that you do not know of what you are talking about,you have eyes and you do not see,you have ears and you dont understand,God is not mocked but since the God of this world(satan) has blinded many like you ,you can continue with that kind of talk,I pray for your soul that you see like we see.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:42 | Report abuse |
    • logic

      What basis does an atheist have for using logic in the first place? If our brains are nothing more than the product of millions of years of evolution, why should we expect logic to be valid in the first place? Maybe it's just the way our brains are wired. Maybe it's not a true reflection of reality. At least the Christian can say: "In the beginning was the Logos (logic), and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God" (John 1:1). That is the basis for the validity of logic. God cannot contradict Himself. Hence, the law of noncontradiction, the basis of all logic. Now atheist, what do you base your logic on?

      In the early part of the twentieth century, logical positivists tried to subject all knowledge to the Verification Principle. If an assertion could not be subjected to logic, then that assertion was declared merely emotive, worthless in terms of knowledge. It took a few decades for philosophers to completely abandon this school of thought. What caused them to give up on this notion? The Verification Principle could not be subject to the Verification Principle.

      The fact of the matter is not everything can be subjected to logic. How about this proposition: "This statement is false". Is it true or false? If it is true, then it is false. That is illogical. Yet it is a perfectly valid construct.

      Thus, some things have to be taken by faith. Indeed, we have to live by faith and we do it everyday. When you entered the building today to type on your computer, did you check the credentials of the structural engineer who designed the building? Of course not! You entered the building based on your faith in the design of the building and its construction. Would it have withstood an earthquake such as the one that devastated Haiti? Who knows, but you entered the building anyway.

      The reason we all have to live by faith is we are not omniscient. The Christian claims that only God is, and only He has complete knowledge. The question is what do you put your faith in? And will that object of your faith supply the most basic answers to life: who am I, where have I come from, and where am I going?

      As to why some were killed in the earthquake and others not, we don't know. The disciples of Jesus asked him that very question in Luke 13:1-5. His response: “Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” In other words, the question is not why did the earthquake destroy so many lives, but why am I still alive? The Bible tells us that the first man Adam disobeyed God and gave his stewardship of the earth over to Satan to plunder it as he will and so "the whole creation groans and travails until the day of redemption" (Rom 8:22). Based on the fact that all are descended from Adam and have therefore sinned due to our sinful nature, why does God, Who does not need any one of us, tolerate us at all? That is the great mystery of the universe. Not why is there evil, but why is there love? And why would God become man, grow up in poverty, perform acts of kindness, and yet suffer a cruel and ignominious death at the hands of unbelievers? If ever there was an injustice this was it. Looking on the outside, we'd say it makes no logical sense.

      Yet the mystery is revealed in Scripture, that He came to pay the penalty for the sin of the world and exchange His righteousness for our sin, so that we might be re-united with God our Father. Logic would not have explained such love. Without the Scripture telling us that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life" (John 3:16), we would not know.

      So I can't explain why some perished and others did not, other than to say that the Sovereign God allowed it so that we who remain will turn to Him. Do it now, while it's still not too late.

      January 12, 2011 at 17:13 | Report abuse |
    • Teeph

      You really could have stopped after the first paragraph. Buuuuut then how would your axe get ground?

      You don't suppose that maybe all the well-wishing was just the necessary pretext to the forthcoming diatribe, do you? I mean, for such an otherwise Vulcan person to concede so readily that life is "precious," and to seek to convey the sincerity of the sentiment with something with something as nebulous as "everything I am."

      Of course, if you analize THAT little nugget. . . what are you? A sack of flesh? Some cells? 98% water? It could be argued (though not PROVEN, yet) that those component materials can't emote or intend anything, so maybe that was your point . . . that you really didn't mean any of the pleasantries that you began with, because you're incapable of such.

      Either way, MY point is that you very rarely find actual philosophers, logicians or scientists trying SO DARNED HARD to shoehorn their pet theories into sympathy cards and the like. Or, if you did, you'd find them to be very annoying and possibly even reprehensible people.

      So no, I'm not attempting here to refute your logic. I'm looking at your motives, unprovable as they may be, and attempting to understand what I see. As logically as possible. Let me know how far off I am.

      Thanks for your time.

      January 12, 2011 at 17:23 | Report abuse |
    • josh

      Man, you are a piece of crap for saying that about someome's religion. Just because you suffer in your pathetic life doesn't mean that you have to down others.

      January 12, 2011 at 22:22 | Report abuse |
    • Trololol

      Didn't a bunch of Christian missionaries kidnap more than a dozen children from Haiti, some with parents who were still alive, and try to smuggle them across the border? Lol! God loves pedobears.

      January 12, 2011 at 23:55 | Report abuse |
    • Mr. E123

      It's okay to disagree with someone's faith choice. However, there is a time when it is best not to saying anything. It's like when a believer is at the funeral of an unbeliever, and thinks they are in hell. It's fine to think it, it is disrespectful to share what you think. Or when an atheist is a a funeral, and chooses not to share the grieving children, "Mommy is not in heaven, because there is no such place." There is something about bashing the faith or unbelief of a crippled or grieving person that doesn't seem right.

      January 12, 2011 at 23:58 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Kallen:
      You referred to the "one and only god". Which god would that happen to be? And why would your prediction only come true if all Americans prayed to your god? What about the other 6.5 billion people in the world who are not Americans? Are they all damned to your imaginary hell? Does your god only care about those who have U.S. citizenship? Or is it more likely that you are only able to view the world through your narrow American isolationist prism? How is it that you are able to "be in awe of what the one true God can do through prayer" without every American sharing your belief, according to your own reasoning?

      January 13, 2011 at 00:37 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Parlemort and mpads:
      Thank you for the supportive statements and additional valid points.

      January 13, 2011 at 01:07 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To CD:
      We can have the conversation but I expect you to use reason, logic, and evidence to support your claims, particularly those which invoke the supernatural. Maybe I should tell you a little more about myself. I used to be a Christian. I believed in the supernatural claims put forth in the bible. In tears, I asked Jesus to be my personal savior. It was a genuine feeling of transcendence. I will never forget it, the feeling that is. It was as authentic a religious experience as surely anyone can have. I was in my early twenties.

      January 13, 2011 at 02:07 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To CD: (part 2)
      Later on I began to feel like a hypocrite because I had not read the bible but yet I believed it to be the perfect word of god. I decided to read it cover to cover with an open mind and, remember, as a Christian. It took about a year for me to do so. By the time I finished it, I felt that something wasn't right. I began to think about all of the other people in the world who held different beliefs from mine and I particularly felt confusion with regards to the doctrine of hell. I took it upon myself to learn more about religion...not just Christianity. I read books written by both believers and non-believers over a period of many years and I still do. I am currently reading the Koran.

      January 13, 2011 at 02:09 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To CD: (part 3)
      I freed myself from the myopic belief system of theism within a couple of years.

      January 13, 2011 at 02:26 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To CD: (part 4)
      I was on longer a Christian.

      January 13, 2011 at 02:30 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To CD: (part 5)
      For what it is worth, I have more respect for deists than for theists even though I still disagree with them. I haven't met any deists who say that I will spend eternity roasting in a place called hell if I don't agree with them nor have I met any deists who support "under god" in the pledge of allegiance or "in god we trust" on our currency. They may be out there but it is theists, specifically Christians in America who want to pretend that the U.S. is a "Christian nation". I would care much less about religion in the world if not for the evangelical power-mongerers who influence political decisions in the country while I pay more than most in taxes to a government that creates programs such as "Faith-Based Initiatives" and whose elected leader (G.W. Bush) informs the whole world that god told him to invade Iraq.

      You are basically stating that since I don't have the same faith as you, then I don't understand. You refer to "sin" and its entrance into our world because of man's lack of faith. I used to believe the same thing! Please consider the possibility that sin is just a word created by the religious authorities in an attempt to claim ownership of morality. We don't need the word sin. We have the word morality and it encompasses every human on the planet, not just the religious.

      And oh boy, what a whopper your last statement was. You said "this woman prayed to God. If God didn't answer her prayer then you could argue why did she survive and others did not?" Are you kidding me?? There were over 200,000 dead bodies dragged from the rubble. According to you logic, of all those who died (again, close to a quarter of a million people), not a single one of them prayed to god for salvation! You know as well as I do that there were tens of thousands of people who cried out to a god in those minutes, hours and days...only to die a lonely death. Your "god" (and all gods) is an empty proposition created by our ancestors thousands of years ago when there was no way to know the universe as we do now. There was no science. There was no medicine. There was no modern technology. They did the best they could in the time period in which they lived. We need to do the best we can in our time. And one way to do that is to put aside our fear-based, blind religious faith in a god who isn't there and get busy living the only life we know we have.

      January 13, 2011 at 02:36 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Azariah:
      Give me a break. Your argument can be summed up as: "you don't know what I know." Religion is the Great Pretend, my friend. Since you decided to chime in, I have a few queries for you:

      Which god do you believe in and what is going to happen to me and everyone else who dies without believing in your god?

      How old is the earth? You invoked satan....who created satan? You mentioned the soul? Where does the soul reside? Can it be measured? Is it possible that the word "soul" is just a religious word that has no real value outside of supernatural claims? How does god determine which prayers to answer and which to ignore?

      You said "I pray for your soul that you see like we see". I've already been there, friendo. I am much happier since I found freedom from religion.

      January 13, 2011 at 02:49 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (I suppose you thought using that as your username would lend credibility to your argument.)
      I read your whole comment and this is what most of your argument boils down to: nonsensical obscurantism and a false assumption that scripture is fact. Logic is not something we get from the bible and it is ridiculous for you to imply so. Have you read the whole bible? Are you not aware of all the internal and external contradictions found within this book? Well, you're not going to find a critique of the bible within the bible so you may have to seek out other books to learn about what I am referring to.

      January 13, 2011 at 03:39 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (part 2)
      Your citation from the book of John is a circular argument: Logos was the first thing....Logos is god....god was the first thing...therefore everything else had to come from god...rinse and repeat. You will probably be shocked by this (you may want to sit down) but your favorite bible verse is not "the basis for the validity of logic". You are begging the question (yet another logical fallacy) when you claim that god cannot contradict god as part of an argument to convince someone that god exists.

      January 13, 2011 at 03:40 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (part 3)
      You failed again with the "This statement is false" trick. Standing alone, it is not a perfectly valid construct, as you claimed. By itself, it is a meaningless statement. And if you are as schooled a philosopher as you would have me believe, you know very well that there is such a thing as a meaningless statement. Thanks for providing a good example.

      January 13, 2011 at 03:42 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (part 4)
      There is a clear difference between the use of the word faith when referring to everyday occurrences and using it in the context of blind religious faith.

      January 13, 2011 at 03:48 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (part 5)
      We don't have to "check the credentials of the structural engineer who designed the building" every time we enter one.

      January 13, 2011 at 03:57 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (part 6)
      We know from our experience that, as a general rule, buildings tend not to fall on top of us.

      January 13, 2011 at 03:59 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic: (part 7)
      It's that simple. The fact is that we have expectations about the world around us based on our interactions with it. When the smoke of your argument clears, religious faith in supernatural claims is a completely different game as compared to whether or not I should walk into my house.

      Of course no one is omniscient, but that in no way supports your claim that there is a god that is omniscient.

      Look, the mystery is not revealed in scripture. The scripture only adds to the confusion. You mentioned the creation of evil...well, looks like we know where that came from. According to your favorite book, in Isaiah, god, the lord created evil. Look it up.

      I get it. I used to be Christian. You want to believe that god sent his son, who is also the same god, on a predetermined suicide mission so he could die for the sins of all mankind which were heaved upon man by the same god who created man in his image. Basically, god creates humans sick and demands that we be well. Your god is not worthy of your worship.

      And your final statement really is disgusting: "the Sovereign God allowed it (the earthquake) so that we who remain will turn to Him. Do it now, while it's still not too late." It really makes me sick to my stomach to know that you think that a god who works this way is worthy of your bended knee. You can have that god and if that god existed, it could have you. I would rather face the mythical fires of hell than to worship a petty, jealous, contriving, malevolent god such as the one you believe in.

      January 13, 2011 at 04:07 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Teeph:
      Thanks for the comment. I could ignore you as I need to go to sleep but I'll address your accusations.

      January 13, 2011 at 04:57 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Teeph: (part 2)
      I could have stopped after the first paragraph but I didn't want to. I meant every word I typed in all 3 paragraphs and I stand by my statements.

      January 13, 2011 at 04:58 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Teeph: (part 3)
      Let's be honest here. Everyone has an ax to grind including you. Religion should no longer be allowed to get a free pass just because the majority of people are religious (or any other reason, for that matter). Let's imagine that the girl described in this article had given the credit for her survival to her chanting of voodoo incantations over animal bones. Would you be so quick to question my motives if I had posted comments regarding how ridiculous it is for someone to make such a claim? You know the answer is no. But if someone plays the god card, then we should all keep a tight lip or someone might get their feelings hurt. It is essentially a roundabout way to commit an Argument from Popularity fallacy....if most people believe it then it must be true. Note that I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but that seems to be what is implied once we take a closer look.

      Life is indeed precious. There is a great irony here. If a person believes in an afterlife, then they oftentimes see this life as just a sinful, carnal passthrough on the way to the perfect, real-deal after-life. I don't have to make this up. You can listen to religious leaders spew this venom all the time. To my lights, this decreases the value of our lives. I see life as more important and meaningful now that I have left religion behind (see other comments above).

      I could have used a variety of words to convey my sincerity. The words I used do not in any way decrease the authenticity of my statement. Let's take it a step further. People often argue against prayer and miracles by pointing out that god does not heal amputees by growing limbs back (a valid argument). I would love to see this girl eventually grow her limbs back. Is it impossible? Right now it is...but it may not be a decade or two from now. What I am getting at is stem-cell research. No, it will not be a miracle cure for all diseases but it is arguably the most promising line of current scientific research. Imagine that one day we may be able to use this method to regrow parts of or entire limbs. But guess what group of people is opposed to stem-cell research. You know the answer...the religious. And guess who will give the credit to their god as opposed to scientists for discovering this possibility if it ever comes to fruition...the religious. I've said it before and I'll say it again....religion can be used to make anything mean anything.

      Your psychological analysis of my comments and intentions is unsubstantiated. I take it as a compliment if you find me to be a rare find....but ultimately I have no need for your approval. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you just want to understand where I am coming from. In summary, my motives are thus: supportive of humanism, reason, science, critical thinking and against nonsense, destruction, and supernatural thought...including religion. I don't think I can be any clearer than that.

      January 13, 2011 at 05:03 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To josh:
      It looks like you haven't heard the news. You may find this hard to believe but there are actually people on this planet who are not religious. I know that may come as a shocker to you but try to take it in stride. Thanks for the childish name-calling, by the way. It demonstrated to me how mature and ready you were to take part in the debate. I actually have a good life....and get this, without religion. Isn't that crazy? Now go clean your room.

      January 13, 2011 at 05:08 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Mr. E123:
      I am so sorry if I hurt your feelings. I should have known better than to break the taboo of criticizing a person's supernatural claims on the internet. Please. This is not a funeral....it's an internet blog. And by the way, it's not fine to think about people roasting in hell. You've just been brainwashed to think so....just the same as you have been indoctrinated to think that it's not nice to criticize religion on the internet. Believe it or not, I can feel compassion toward another human being while at the same time, voicing my disagreement with their outlandish claims.

      January 13, 2011 at 05:15 | Report abuse |
    • Andy

      Permit me a humorous story:

      A man was in a flood zone and as the water rose, we went up on his roof. There he prayed for God to save him. When the water was at his knees, a boat came by, and said, "Get in. We are here to save you." The man replied, "No thanks. God will save me." When the water was up to his waist, a second boat came by. "Get in. We are here to save you." The man again replied, "No thanks. God will save me." When the water was up to his chin, a helicopter threw down a ladder, and the person on the helicopter said, "Climb up. We are here to save you." The man said, "No thanks. God will save me." And then the man drowned. When the man reached God in heaven, the man said, "I prayed for you to save me and you didn't!" God replied, "What are you talking about! I sent two boats and a helicopter!"

      We are the only hands that God has.

      January 13, 2011 at 09:09 | Report abuse |
    • Jake

      To thes33k3r:

      Some of your replies seem quite emotional. I am sorry for any person who has acted unbecomingly towards you in the name of any God (though you may prefer god).

      As to your original statement, however, it amuses me that in making your accusation you have implored a moral imperative. You reason natural disasters to be evil and any God to allow them to be evil as well. In your accusation you also assert yourself to be all-knowing of purpose and intent. Pain and suffering has been known to bring about the best sometimes in character. Just look at our nation and how it is responding to the shootings of a recent congresswoman. If God were to allow pointless pain and suffering then this would be evil and such a God I could not love. I do not propose to know the specifics of exactly every instance of pain and suffering and how God might allow it for good reason because to do so would be speaking to the mind of God.

      I do have faith in “logic” however not as much as you do. Your assertion there be NO good reason for God to allow pain and suffering in ANY instance also asserts your ability to reason PERFECTLEY and know PERFECTLY. Though you may be reasonable in you assertions I, personally, lack such great faith that you have because I have seen myself wrong before.

      The trouble I have with your worldview is that you lack any foundation for making moral statements. You can not can the pointless shooting of a nine year old girl wrong. You can not call EVIL really EVIL.

      In summary, God can really be GOOD, EVIL can really be EVIL, and God really can do something about it.

      January 13, 2011 at 10:31 | Report abuse |
    • logic

      >To logic: (I suppose you thought using that as your username would lend credibility to your argument.)
      I> read your whole comment and this is what most of your argument boils down to: nonsensical obscurantism and a false >assumption that scripture is fact. Logic is not something we get from the bible and it is ridiculous for you to imply so. Have >you read the whole bible? Are you not aware of all the internal and external contradictions found within this book? Well, >you're not going to find a critique of the bible within the bible so you may have to seek out other books to learn about what I >am referring to.
      >Your citation from the book of John is a circular argument: Logos was the first thing....Logos is god....god was the first >thing...therefore everything else had to come from god...rinse and repeat. You will probably be shocked by this (you may >want to sit down) but your favorite bible verse is not "the basis for the validity of logic". You are begging the question (yet >another logical fallacy) when you claim that god cannot contradict god as part of an argument to convince someone that >god exists.

      We all live by assumptions or presuppositions. You do, too. For example, your assumption that God does not exist. Have you surveyed every corner of the universe, every book ever written, every aspect of nature to come to that conclusion? Of course not, it's a matter of faith, a worldview that you accept without question. Even logic starts with a premise. In mathematics, we call it an axiom. From that we deduce certain conclusions. The premise is simply accepted. As to whether it reflects reality is a matter of faith. Whole fields of mathematics have been developed (such as non-Euclidean geometry) simply by rejecting conventional axioms.

      I am not suggesting that we get logic from the Bible. I am saying that the basis for logic is God Himself. This is alluded to in the Bible in John 1:1 and in many other places. And the argument is not circular. The fallacy in your reasoning is that you assume God had a beginning. From Einstein's relativity and Big Bang cosmology, you should know that time is not absolute, that it came into existence with the universe. So this verse, which parallels Genesis 1:1, is referring to the fact that the Logos was there at the beginning when the universe was created (God is eternal, and existed prior to and apart from the universe). In other words, logic comes from God because it is intrinsic to His nature (personality).And it is expressed in His creation. In an atheistic framework, where does logic come from? It comes from within our own brains, which is the result of a long evolutionary process. But how do we know it is trustworthy? Maybe a schizophrenic's mind is a more accurate depiction of reality. And maybe the universe is really fundamentally contradictory, as some quantum philosophers have suggested. If that's the case, then logic is illusory. The fact is, although an atheist tries to use logic to repudiate the claims of Christians, he has no real basis for using it. For logic is not material, it is a function of reason, which is part of personality, and that, the Christian contends, is stamped on the human soul, for man was made in the image of God.

      >You failed again with the "This statement is false" trick. Standing alone, it is not a perfectly valid construct, as you claimed. >By itself, it is a meaningless statement. And if you are as schooled a philosopher as you would have me believe, you know >very well that there is such a thing as a meaningless statement. Thanks for providing a good example.

      It is a valid construct. The grammar is correct and semantically it makes sense. Otherwise, you would not be objecting to it (i.e. you would not have understood what the statement is conveying). Here's what a meaningless statement looks like (courtesy of Lewis Carroll)::

      Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
      All mimsy were the borogoves,
      And the mome raths outgrabe.

      The point is that logic, useful as it is, cannot be applied to everything that is meaningful in life. While it serves the intellect well, it falls short when it comes to emotion (such as love and forgiveness) and will (conviction and commitment).

      >There is a clear difference between the use of the word faith when referring to everyday occurrences and using it in the >context of blind religious faith.

      >We don't have to "check the credentials of the structural engineer who designed the building" every time we enter one.
      >We know from our experience that, as a general rule, buildings tend not to fall on top of us.

      >It's that simple. The fact is that we have expectations about the world around us based on our interactions with it. When the >smoke of your argument clears, religious faith in supernatural claims is a completely different game as compared to whether >or not I should walk into my house.

      First of all, I take exception to my faith being a "blind" faith. A blind faith would accept anything and everything thrown at it. A blind faith would not use reason at all. Christianity is a very rational faith. Are there unanswered questions? Sure. Are there things about God that are inexplicable? Yes. But it makes sense. If you study the history of universities and the rise of modern science itself, you will find that Christians were at the forefront of these endeavors. Men like Pascal and Maxwell made invaluable contributions. In fact, science came out of a branch of theology called Natural Theology, the idea that nature speaks of God's invisible attributes.

      To accept the premise that God does not exist, despite the incredible design in the Universe, is in fact a kind of "blind" faith. Faith in the rightness of your own position. Faith in human reason above all else. Faith in those whose books you've read that bash Christianity. We all live by faith.

      When the Christian speaks of faith, we are not merely talking about an intellectual exercise. The word connotes trust. So yes, it is the same faith as when you walk into a building. You trust the designers of that building. With faith in God, you trust Him with your eternal destiny. The stakes are so high that Pascal offered a wager, that to bet for Christianity and to lose, costs very little. To bet against it and lose costs everything.

      As to the alleged contradictions, there are many books on this subject that I can refer you to. Just keep in mind, when we talk about God (I'm not alluding to the narratives of Scripture here), we must speak in analogical terms, for God does not dwell in (nor is he bound) by the creation. In that sense, we say that He is infinite. One can picture writing T (for true) and F (for false) one on top the other on a sheet of paper, representing a proposition that is both true and false at the same time, the same place, and in the same sense. But if we add another (third) dimension, the T and F can be separated by the third axis, so that they are no longer on top of each other. God is beyond the creation, so all that we are left with to describe Him are analogies.

      >Of course no one is omniscient, but that in no way supports your claim that there is a god that is omniscient.

      >Look, the mystery is not revealed in scripture. The scripture only adds to the confusion. You mentioned the creation of >evil...well, looks like we know where that came from. According to your favorite book, in Isaiah, god, the lord created evil. >Look it up.

      >I get it. I used to be Christian. You want to believe that god sent his son, who is also the same god, on a predetermined >suicide mission so he could die for the sins of all mankind which were heaved upon man by the same god who created man i>n his image. Basically, god creates humans sick and demands that we be well. Your god is not worthy of your worship.

      >And your final statement really is disgusting: "the Sovereign God allowed it (the earthquake) so that we who remain will >turn to Him. Do it now, while it's still not too late." It really makes me sick to my stomach to know that you think that a god >who works this way is worthy of your bended knee. You can have that god and if that god existed, it could have you. I >would rather face the mythical fires of hell than to worship a petty, jealous, contriving, malevolent god such as the one you >believe in.

      I find it surprising actually that you are disgusted by my statement. Why? Do you think it is insensitive, unkind perhaps? So if there is no God, why should I be kind? In fact, why should I abide by your moral standard? If chance and "survival of the fittest" is all that is in play in this universe, all we can say is whatever is is right. Whether it is "might makes right" or "winner takes all", there is no" ought to be" For whatever I find to benefit me is my own moral standard, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks.

      As to Isaiah 45:7, the Hebrew word for evil can be used in many different senses. From the context, it's quite obvious it is speaking of God bringing judgment or calamity on those who disobey Him. And He is right in doing so, for He is omniscient and can judge with perfect adjudication. Other scripture tells us He cannot be tempted by evil (James 1:13). That's how we know this verse is speaking of evil in a different way. Most modern translations do not use the word "evil" here.

      God did not create us sick and then demand we be well or else He'll cast us into the lake of fire. He created us with a free will to operate within certain boundaries. It's like saying to your child, "You are free to play any where in the yard, on the swing set, in the sandbox, on the grass - it's your choice. But you may not play in the street, because if you play in the street, you'll get hit by a car and die." Our choice to go out of the confines of God's boundaries has led to our own spiritual death. And spiritual death has far more lasting consequences than physical death. In fact, for the Christian physical death leads to inexpressible joy in the presence of God and the expectation of a future glorified body free from pain and sorrow.

      You focus on the fires of hell. That is more likely a metaphor. What hell is, is separation from God, and all that He is. His love, His joy, His peace, His grace. You want freedom. God has given you freedom to make a choice. He doesn't coerce you. He will give you what you want. Do you want to be separated from Him forever? The stakes are high.

      Bottom line is we cannot fashion God into our own image. We have to go with what He has revealed. Reason will only take us so far.

      January 13, 2011 at 23:11 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Andy:
      It's a funny story. But just because two boats and a helicopter show up to help some one doesn't mean they were sent by a supernatural being.

      January 13, 2011 at 23:59 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Jake:

      It is true that some of my comments involve emotional language. It is possible that I could have used less of that and maybe I should have. What I really want to challenge the reader to do is to engage in the debate based on the merits of my arguments and not on emotion...so you have a valid point.

      January 14, 2011 at 00:44 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Jake: (part 2)

      You assume incorrectly that I have been damaged by a religious person.

      January 14, 2011 at 00:52 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Jake: (part 3)

      It is religious thought that I am opposed to because of the emptiness of it's claims to truth.

      January 14, 2011 at 00:54 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To Jake: (part 4)

      People who are religious more often than not do not have any desire to search for answers beyond the scope of their narrow religious worldview. How many Christians do you know who have read the Koran and vice versa. You might be thinking...I have a narrow atheistic worldview? Not so. I am open to the evidence...all of it. If your god wants to reveal himself before me then by all means send him my way. Consider this: none of the popular religious systems in the world can make sense of why every religious group on earth holds mutually incompatible beliefs when compared to others. It is a matter of fact that Christianity and Islam are completely irreconcilable. Doesn't that bother you at all? If it doesn't, I think it is because you ultimately decide that you don't really care about important questions.....if they happen to throw a kink into your religious worldview. For me, it makes sense. Both religions were created by men in different time periods. Islam was loosely devised based on Christianity but it was intentionally made to be incompatible. Jesus is a prophet, but not divine according to the Koran.

      You have completely missed the point and misrepresented my position with regards to my original statement. I do not "reason natural disasters to be evil". I consider nature to be completely amoral. Morality springs from the human mind just as religion does. What I clearly stated was that, according to her logic, god must be evil for allowing the earthquake. The girl in the article invoked an interventionist god, not me. I only pointed out the clear flaw in her logic. Dude, it is this simple: If you believe in a god that can intervene, then you truly are claiming that you know something about the mind of god. Some times god wants to intervene, sometimes not. You also claim that god would allow pain and suffering....more mind of god inference. But if you want to believe in an all-knowing, all-loving god, how can you? This is a dilemma for any clear-thinking person and it is one of the many reasons I gave up religion. As I stated above in another reply, if this is the god you believe in, this god is not worthy of our worship.

      I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again. That is part of being human. I don't claim to know everything or to be able to think perfectly as you asserted. I just expect you to use logic against my claims. I won't let someone get away with essentially saying that god's powers are higher than ours....end of discussion. Religion really is a conversation stopper.

      You are mistaken again when you imply that only a religious person can have a foundation for making moral statements. Can't you see how empty it is to claim that the only people on earth who can make moral claims are the religious? Look at the Pope who claims to be the moral authority of the universe while shielding pedophile priests behind his golden robe. Morality does not belong to the religious. It belongs to the entire human community. The pointless killing of any one is wrong. I don't have to believe a single supernatural idea to know it to be so.

      January 14, 2011 at 00:55 | Report abuse |
    • thes33k3r

      To logic again:

      I agree that we may not be able to solve every riddle in the universe with reason and logic. But that does not mean that we have to abandon it in favor of faith. You should be familiar with how the burden of proof concept works but I am not sure you are, based on your argument. There is nothing logically wrong with assuming that a god does not exist. The burden of proof is on your shoulders because you are making the positive claim that something does exist. The burden of proof does not belong to the person who says that something does not exist. If I claimed that there are hundreds of billions of gods, one for each star in the universe and you disagree, I cannot logically reply that it is up to you to prove that there are NOT billions of gods. Do I have to prove to you that Santa doesn't exist? No. It is no different with anything else including all concepts of god. Have you surveyed every corner of the universe so you could prove that Thor does not exist? If not, according to your argument, then you have to assume Thor exists.

      You are still conflating two obviously different meanings of the word faith. I have already shown how you are doing this so I refer you to my previous reply in which I addressed it. To summarize, every belief that a person can possibly hold is not a matter of religious faith.

      You are obviously a smarter-than-average person and I applaud you for your willingness to engage me in the debate. However, you know as well as I know that there is no way you can possibly KNOW that "the basis for logic is God Himself." You keep quoting scripture from your holy book (again, I read the whole book when I was a Christian) but how could you possibly argue with a Muslim who claimed that their book was the perfect word of the creator of the universe and yours was just a book. The point is that you can't.

      Let's pretend that I play along and that god exists. Neither you nor I could possibly know whether it had a beginning or not. So please stop pretending that you are privy to supernatural revelations that are inaccessible to me.

      If your argument about logic were true (which it is not), then everything is nonsense including all of your own arguments. Again, you are employing obscurant arguments to make it seem that your arguments are superior when there's no reason to believe they are...oh, I forgot, atheists can't use reason and logic against your claims because only Christians have access to REAL logic because they can readily quote bible verses that obviate their claims. Come on?

      Alright, the "this statement is false" is a validly constructed sentence. And no, it is not a meaningless statement. It is a version of the Liar Paradox. Your use of it is a Red Herring though. You are implying that since there is at least one valid statement that is a logical paradox, then what is the value of logic? Logic still prevails more often than not and even in matters of emotion and will, if we discard logic, then our emotions and will often lead us into huge mistakes. Why in the world should I consider believing in the supernatural just because of the Liar Paradox?

      I am not going to back off pointing out how blind your religious faith really is. I know you think it is grounded in reason and logic but it isn't. Once again, if your faith is reasonable, then so is the faith of every Muslim, Jew, and Scientologist. They are all based on the same amount of evidence.

      Yes the religious people were the ones on the cutting edge of the modern science revolution. But there is something you are leaving out here: they were the only people around to do the job. It's not as if there were equal amounts of religious folk and atheists around. There were practically no atheists....everyone was religious.

      And the argument from design: about time you pulled that one out. Get busy explaining these aspects of god's finely tuned universe: wisdom teeth, the appendix, babies born with two heads or their hearts on the outside of the torso, and on and on it goes. These things don't make sense based on your intelligent design universe.

      I'm glad (and surprised) that you invoked Pascal's (empty) Wager. What a terrible reason to believe in a god. You are saying that your god would, knowing your intent, let you into his paradise if you only decided to believe in him because you wanted to hedge your bet but that same god would exclude someone who refused to accept the wager because they knew it was an intellectually dishonest position. This wager has been refuted over and over yet you still use it? Once again, a god that would work this way is not worthy of your worship. I'll bet against it every time...even on my deathbed.

      The book of Isaiah clearly implied that god is responsible for everything....including evil. You choose to ignore this because it doesn't blend with your religious faith. It's obvious that modern translations are simply trying to distance the concept of god with evil by changing the word.

      Well, if you think that you must believe in these things in order to be kind and moral, then go ahead. Your sense of morality comes from the same place as mine, the brain, but I wouldn't want you lose on the streets if your were going to be an immoral psychopath without your religion. Maybe you'll change your mind one day. I was a Christian like you and I changed mine. Are you willing to admit that at least in theory, you could one day change your mind?

      January 14, 2011 at 02:23 | Report abuse |
  2. anon

    God sure does love you. He brings a building down on you, takes your arms, makes you limp, but he saved you. Makes perfect sense.

    January 12, 2011 at 01:43 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Hassan Dosso

      Absolutely agree

      January 12, 2011 at 12:27 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      Read the Bible for once, if you haven't already. We don't know how God works, we as humans are not supposed to know. But the natual disaster happened, this girl had faith and courage. God saw that, and though she happened to be crushed He kept her alive. She could have died but she didn't. Yes, there were soldiers who came and rescued her from the rubble. But God sends people to help other people all the time. That's how He works. If you cannot understand that then I assume you are very narrow minded to the faith that Christians have.

      January 12, 2011 at 12:58 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      and when I said "that's how He works" I meant that in the Bible we know that's one of the way He works because He has done it so many times.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:00 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      KLB, you do know the bible is nothing but passed on fables and testaments. SO your sentence really should read... "that's how someone else told someone else that's how he works" (then don't forget all the editing over thousands of years)

      January 12, 2011 at 14:14 | Report abuse |
    • CD

      Bad things happen because people reject God. It's the definition of sin.

      January 12, 2011 at 15:38 | Report abuse |
    • John

      Doesn't it though. What a concept...

      January 12, 2011 at 16:20 | Report abuse |
  3. LEB

    "Without faith and courage I would have not survived."

    No, without the American rescue workers who found you in time you would not have survived. The problem with your belief that God saved you is this... were all the other thousands who died NOT worth saving? What a ghastly notion. How terrible to believe that God sent the soldiers to save you, yet didn't bother with the rest. Or better yet, that he didn't stop the earthquake from happening in the first place.

    You owe your life to hard-working, heroic human beings who, very luckily, found you in time. You should thank them instead.

    January 12, 2011 at 02:51 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Justina

      Any human is alive only because of God's mercy and sovereignty.

      January 12, 2011 at 04:23 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Any human is alive because of a egg merging with a sperm

      January 12, 2011 at 12:52 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      to thommas:
      SO I suppose you believe that the egg and sperm came out of nowhere? Just like the "big bang" did? Wow that makes a lot of sense.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:22 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      hahaha, no but I obviously need to take it one step at a time so people don't jump to conclusions, the absence of evidence is not evidence for its absence (ie just because mankind, and certainly you, do not understand something one can't just chalk it up to god... thats lazy and honestly just stupid). At the very least all evidence points to the fact that the god of Abraham had nothing to do with the production of gametes. hahaha, let alone all the billions of years that took place in between life on this planet and the big bang (you know when humans were not around to make up gods)

      January 12, 2011 at 14:43 | Report abuse |
  4. Kathy

    One thing that atheists consistently think is that God would act the way the atheist would act, reason the way that the atheist reasons. And typically the way that the atheist acts or reasons is rooted only in the present moment for the needs of one individual without any thought to a larger and grander picture that involves all humans as a community growing and living in the natural world, and the meaning of the individual in relation to that reality. Just an observation.

    January 12, 2011 at 07:36 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Suzi

      You live in a fantasy world if you believe atheist don't look at the scheme of life. We do look at all of it most religious people only pay attention to what their leader of the moment tells them to think or be concerned about. I do all I can for anyone that I can with the meager monies and limited time I have after taking care of my family obligations.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:01 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Suzi, don't forget that us humanists do all we can because we care for our fellow man and the future of our species. Not because of our fear in not doing what a deity tells us to do.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:16 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      Atheists do look at the scheme of life but they don't consider faith being an important thing because its "a figment of our imagination."

      January 12, 2011 at 14:24 | Report abuse |
  5. icurpoint

    God is good

    January 12, 2011 at 08:18 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Jesus

      So is Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. They're all good. Now go to sleep and dream of sugar plums.

      January 12, 2011 at 22:45 | Report abuse |
  6. Kit

    Really, is this the time or the place for this argument?

    January 12, 2011 at 08:36 | Report abuse | Reply
  7. jenfly

    Here we go..bashing people of faith again. What does it matter to atheists? We have faith, you don't. It works for both of us. Get over it.

    January 12, 2011 at 08:55 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Klb1110

      I totally agree!

      January 12, 2011 at 12:54 | Report abuse |

      I have no particular interest in bashing religion. What I WOULD like is for your organizations to pay their fare share of taxes, so I don't have to pay more. THAT bothers me more than your religion, which I could care less about. sanjosemike

      January 12, 2011 at 13:10 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Why does it matter? Because we live in a democratic republic and bible thumpers vote based on what a couple thousand year old book tells them to do. Matters of faith and other dividing concepts will be the end of mankind if they are not kept to oneself.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:21 | Report abuse |
  8. Give it up

    Jenfly, Kit, Kathy – it's not worth bothering with this. Some atheists (certainly not all are as vitriolic as others just as there are too many believers who are vitriolic as well) love to comment on faith articles while claiming to not care about God or faith. I find it humorous. Please continue to walk in faith and know that our love for our fellow man extends equally to everyone; know that we would gladly give our lives for them, or anyone, even though they do not know Him. We may not like that they do not share our faith in Him, but we still love and pray for them. He will continue to extend His love to them and they will accept it or reject it, but that's between Him and them. It's above our pay grade.

    Let the bashing begin......

    Blessings to all.

    January 12, 2011 at 09:15 | Report abuse | Reply
  9. chris

    before we start getting into a Christian vs Athiest contest, let me re-quote the article:

    " If you don’t take anything else from my story please know that life is precious. What we take for granted can be gone in a matter of seconds, cherish the people in your life and live life to the fullest. Tomorrow's not promised!!"

    Lets leave it at that

    January 12, 2011 at 09:21 | Report abuse | Reply
  10. Jerry

    I find the faith-bashing to be such an infantile reaction. I am a Christian. I am 100% confident in my beliefs. I have no need to "convince" anyone else but I do live in a country where I am free to share my faith with others and do so every chance I get. Some are grateful for my insights, others not.

    In a quote often attributed to Mother Theresa, "The good you do today, people will forget tomorrow...do good anyway." In layman's terms, a person who does not believe in faith has absolutely no bearing on my beliefs, no matter how much they rail and mock. Knock yourselves out...it really does not bother me in the least.

    January 12, 2011 at 11:11 | Report abuse | Reply
    • displeased

      Are you one of those who likes to share your views with other but almost never want others to share their views with you?

      January 12, 2011 at 12:01 | Report abuse |
    • dolen614

      You put your faith in "something" that never shows itself. Seeing is believeing. I've yet to see Jesus or God.
      So until they show up they get filed with the other figures that are never seen. Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, sober Lindsey Lohan..... etc
      As for Darline, as a fellow human being I am glad she is alive and was rescued.

      January 12, 2011 at 12:16 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      to the one who says there is no God, you have to have faith. The Bible says we don't have to see it to believe it. Of course you can't see Jesus He died on Earth. But when He comes back you better be ready. You either accept Him or you face damnation.

      January 12, 2011 at 12:52 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      You do realize that the concept of just have to have faith has been used before: Jews are ruining our country and need to be eliminated, Americans are evil and we need to have a jihad against them, how about the faith in fox news that lead to the recent shooting, the list goes on. So many atrocities performed by man just following their faith in what someone else tells them.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:29 | Report abuse |
    • GrenGirl

      I totally agree with you. Forget about those who want to spend time arguing about the existence of God. NO ONE can argue with your testimony and what Christ has personally done for you. You and I know that the Bible says anyone who TRULY says in his heart that there is no God is a total FOOL. It is better to say that one doesn't like GOd or thinks he is unfair or chooses simply not to be in a relationship with him than to look up into the sky while standiing on a planet in the middle of a universe we can barely explore and say....."Duh.....I think there is no GOD". "I got here by accident". "Wow, this planet HAPPENS to sustain life, what a coincidence!". "Wow, we can't figure out how to create life from scratch yet, but we're certain planet earth and all that exists on it is the result of random bangs"...... How stupid can we humans get? And I include myself in the criticism because I didn't clue in until recently. That God exists is obvious to many. For others, denial is the best bet. One thing is true, the Bible says that the skies and trees declare the glory of God so that NO ONE IS WITH EXCUSE. You and I weren't born believers either, which means that even those who are posting mean and hateful comments could one day change their mind. Let's pray that they'll know the peace and joy that comes from understanding GOD is love. Some of the things that happen on this planet are the result of our human choices, others because of sin, others just because of nature. As Christians we can just RELAX! If we die, we die. If we live, we live. Either way WE WIN!!! God is great even when he doesn't do things the way I would. Wait! that's why I'm not God. What a concept.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:45 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Gren, yes you win.... the future of mankind looses

      January 12, 2011 at 15:13 | Report abuse |
  11. itsjustme

    This took guts! Godspeed to this young woman!

    January 12, 2011 at 12:10 | Report abuse | Reply
  12. fat so?

    I always wanted a HOOK!!!!

    January 12, 2011 at 12:23 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Mearder

      fat so?
      I always wanted a HOOK!!!

      You might get your wish one day
      and you ll wish you never had wished for one

      January 12, 2011 at 13:40 | Report abuse |
  13. STLBroker

    Story above from an atheist's point of view.

    The building fell on me. I did not believe in God so praying did not occur to me. It was hopeless. So I just died.

    Then the rescue team arrived.........

    Seems like this young lady's faith gave her the will and strength to live for days trapped under rubble in extreme pain to me. A belief in logic alone would have just lead to complete despair and a loss of the will to live.

    God has made clear that bad things will happen to believers and non-believers alike. The difference is how those bad things are dealt with. This young lady responded with faith and prayer and she is alive today to tell her story. Praise God!!!

    January 12, 2011 at 12:25 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Bob Loblaw

      That is funny, I didn't realize that humans could just will ourselves to death whenever we felt like it. Also it seems to stand to reason that a belief in logic would have you hoping for a rescue team to come instead of a invisible man in the sky to intervene and in the end who came through? As other people have mentioned, I am truly happy that she was able to survive and gets a second chance at life but I am sick of people giving credit to god when it was direct human intervention that saved her.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:30 | Report abuse |
  14. Good

    This story is about a youny woman who is making the best out of a bad situation. Who care's what religion or what her beliefs are. Everyone should be congratulating her on not letting this terrible thing bring her down. Her strength to overcome everything she's been through is admirable. Shame on all of you for using this article to express the whole "god or no god" agrument.

    January 12, 2011 at 12:43 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Klb1110

      I agree, her whole idea was to express her thankfulness to be alive. Lets leave it at that. But as a Christian, I admire her thankfulness to God.

      January 12, 2011 at 12:48 | Report abuse |
    • momto2

      I agree, May she inspire others to live life to the fullest!

      January 12, 2011 at 13:31 | Report abuse |
  15. Klb1110

    Very Inspiring story, I used it in my youth article. Praise God for His mercy!

    January 12, 2011 at 12:47 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      And for the deaths of the 1,000's of other people

      January 12, 2011 at 12:56 | Report abuse |
    • Suzi

      How do you explain your god allowing all those others to suffer. Like the orphans, like the other dismembered, those that struggled to start small businesses that barely kept them fed and clothed gone. What did those people do to deserve this treatment by your god?

      January 12, 2011 at 13:07 | Report abuse |
  16. Brian

    She is lucky she is not an American. She would spend the rest of her life paying for this. On top of that she now has a "pre existing condition."

    January 12, 2011 at 13:14 | Report abuse | Reply
  17. 7Dino7

    It's sad to see so many atheists chiming in here to criticize this girl's faith. You do nothing but point out what is obvious to you and predictable to believers. You practically call this girl crazy for believing in a God that has left her in this unfortunate state. And yet you hear similar stories all the time. Have you even considered that those of us who do believe, do so for a very real reason? That we have actually felt something very powerful confirming the existence of a force guiding our lives, and that maybe you just haven't felt it yet, or refuse to acknowledge it? And what a stupid place to even be having this discussion. This girl's story is remarkable and her optimism admirable.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:21 | Report abuse | Reply
  18. Shelby

    She is so blessed,thanks for sharing your story..the first post made on her belief in God was by a non-believer..those that choose to make a staement & stand up for her & their belief in God..bless you too..staying silent when our Lord above is continually bashed as not existing is condoning those non-believers words against him..

    Women such as her will make a difference in those amputees in haiti..she will be the face for change of how those in haiti that are now amputees will be treated..those not able to work in traditional ways of haiti are deemed unfit/no good for anything & left to die..she has encouraged me to change the way my household views the donations being sent to haitians..God Bless you child!

    January 12, 2011 at 13:22 | Report abuse | Reply
  19. gKa

    I'm tired of people constantly thanking GOD. THANK THE SCIENTISTS and those who were involved in developing this technology or medicine. People give no credit to hard working humans, but love to give credit to the one hiding behind the curtain.. Interesting that nobody ever thanks GOD for losing his arm, leg, becoming sick with deadly sickness, etc..

    January 12, 2011 at 13:26 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Shelby

      Should you be that tired of us believers thanking God gKa..mayhap YOU should try it yourself..this young lady KNOWS what saved her..her God..God's child..this story is truly inspiring..the look of happiness & peace on her face is beautiful to look at..her story is amazing..I have faith,but would not want it tested in the manner she endured..though I would also be thanking God had I been in her position,she is an inspiration..so many of us THINK we have it hard..she has made me realize once again how truly blessed my life is & has been..what doesn't kill us..makes us stronger..God bless you child.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:33 | Report abuse |
    • gKa

      ".this young lady KNOWS what saved her." this sums up all the theists.. THEY have no understanding of what is "know" and "unknown" , they all claim they KNOW! lol.. keep living in your delusion.. NEXT TIME GOD decides to do harm to you THANK HIM for it, but before the science steps in and saves it..

      January 12, 2011 at 13:38 | Report abuse |
    • Toby

      @gKa- Great comment! Unfortunately, there seems to be an all too human tendency to embrace the illogical and absurd in order to explain the unknown.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:46 | Report abuse |
  20. dyllan

    First of all Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists all believe in some form of God, and may have more than one. Second of all faith is just that. Faith. Do you have a significant other? Because you have to have faith that they come back to you. Faith that they won't step out an you and fool around with others. Everyday you drive to work you put faith in other drivers to not kill you. Can you prove that you won't get hit on your way to work? No. Can you prove there's a God? No. Sometimes it's just important for people to believe in something higher. Maybe God's intention for not preventing or possibly even causing the earthquake was to bring people together. People from all over the world pulled together to help Haiti out. Just like we did for Katrina in New Orleans. My point basically is this, instead of being so negative about her beliefs you could have just stuck to your first paragraph. Do you go around telling kids there is no Santa? No Easter Bunny? Because it would kill me to see someone hurt like that because you have to ruin everything for them.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:27 | Report abuse | Reply
  21. Klb1110

    To Tommas:
    I can't explain why some people made it and why others did not. But it was obvious the young woman had courage in God and she believed that He would save her. He did, He sent people to find her and she was alive, though wounded for life. Life is precious and we should not take it for granted. People find strength through adversities and through this challenge, this woman can help others that suffer. This woman can share a powerful testimony and help the salvation of many people. That is what I see, that is what the Bible says about believers, and I understand you cannot believe that because of the deaths of many other people. I hope that one day you will see why our God does the things He does.

    To Suzi
    I suffered through abuse during a lot of my childhood. I know what its like to question if there is a God. I still have questions about God but I try to seek the answers in the Bible. "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him, if we deny him, he also shall deny us." 2 Timothy 2:12 Many believers find strength in their suffering with God.

    A music video might help you understand that can explain it better than I can.
    And the Bible can explain it even better.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:28 | Report abuse | Reply
    • gKa

      "he send people to save her" ... yeah cause he was too busy playing poker to do prevent the collapse of the building in the first place.. lol you religious people FAIL at basic LOGIC

      January 12, 2011 at 13:44 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      gKa, its easy to fail at logic when your entire concept of ones life is based on delusions. People are scared and the truth, or our little knowledge of it, and it is more than most people (>85% in this country) can handle. This girl was saved because HUMANS, american soldiers and doctors/science. If we waited for god to work his "magic" she would be dead. That "works in mysterious ways" BS is a simple built in default cop out. The earth's crust shifted and soldiers saved her life, end of story. The soldiers and doctors earned our praise, no one else.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:59 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      Excuse me but I do not fail at basic logic. I took religion classes and I know perfectly well what it means to be logic. I have also taken philosophy and know what you all atheists/agnostic believers think. God condones Magic smart guy. Magic is derived from evil not from God. And Evil happens. I DO not know what happened to cause the earthquake...it could have been God destroying all those who were causing people who did evil, it may have been God saving believers whether they lived or not (those who didn't live went to heaven, those who did make it have to suffer because this happened), or how about this LOGIC: Natural causes is why this happened. God intervened on this woman's behalf because she believed He would. I know all of you who down the Christians would not do so if you saw us in person. So you guys need to get off your high horse and say what you want to someone's face not online. You have your beliefs, I have mine. Things happen in this world that is unfair. Religion tries to explain it. Read the book "The Sacred Canopy" by Peter Berger. I don't care what everyone says about the Christian faith. You can take it or leave it. It is your decision.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:18 | Report abuse |
    • Klb1110

      correction: God does not condone magic

      January 12, 2011 at 14:19 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Please, for my entertainment differentiate magic and miracles.

      January 12, 2011 at 14:48 | Report abuse |
  22. N. Peterson

    True that all is not lost, she still has a stump.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:31 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Shelby

      @npeterson..who or what made you so nasty toward a young lady with that kind of statement?..that is very nasty..I am sure YOU think the stump comment was soo cute & funny..are you pleased with yourself now?..shame shame shame on you..she has so much more than a stump..did you even read her story of survival?..her triumph of her new "hands"?..this is a inspiring story..but..what makes it even more awesome,is the look on her face..she is so thankful just to be alive..very strong & courageous young lady.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:39 | Report abuse |
    • 7Dino7

      Dude, seriously? Grow a heart.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:41 | Report abuse |
  23. gKa

    Let's get it straight.. GOD has a plan, his plan was for the building to collapse while she was in the building, then he had a plan to send some rescue workers to help her out , but at the end she lost her arms, hmmm.. WHO IS TO BE BLAMED for the loss of ARMS if not GOD and his sick PLAN? Religious people are really crazy!

    January 12, 2011 at 13:43 | Report abuse | Reply
  24. Toby

    If her faith in her god is so strong, why not pray for god to regrow her missing limbs? I'm serious here; if those who profess to believe in the efficacy of prayer are so sincere, and god is regarded as all-powerful, why the hell not? The undeniable fact here is that those who profess to have such a strong faith in the unknown and unseen are simply deluding themselves with a comforting idea-an idea for which there is no good evidence.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:44 | Report abuse | Reply
  25. Shelby

    @gKa..you do not even know me..nor my suffering,& not once did I ever deny my God..why do you "lol" at this story..who are you people that attempt to degrade HER story..HER belief?..why do soo many hate others strength & belief in God..this is her story & NOTHING you or any other non-believers say or do will stop this courageous young lady..she is God's child..& she KNOWS who was with her those 5 days until the American soldiers came..he is with her now & forever,you can't touch that..& it truly makes you heartless & angry..her story here is inspirational & she will be the face of change for amputees in haiti..I had gotten to the point I was like..why are these people (haitians) not helping theirselves..& here God put her right in my view this morning,reminding me that he is here & not to turn my back on his children..she has inspired me to further donate..truly a story that brought tears to my eyes,not an easy thing..she just..looks peaceful..happy!

    January 12, 2011 at 13:48 | Report abuse | Reply
  26. 4MyThoughts

    I usually am not one to comment on things I read, however, I find this topic fascinating. The definition of "Faith" is something that is believed, especially with strong conviction. My simple comment is Darline believes God has helped her through this incredible challenge. Period. Do you have to agree, no. Do you have to believe, no. So, why not look at this story as someone's testimony of how they are attempting to overcome an incredible situation? Is she trying to convert you from your belief, no. So, why would we question and ask validate and verify hers? Her story is just that, HER story of something in HER life. Whether WE believe God had anything to do with this, is irrelevant. Our particular views are not the only ones that exist in this world and we really should be more tolerant to others, even if we do not agree.

    All the best to you, Darline. I truly admire your courage in the wake of a amazing challenge.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:52 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Toby

      No, FAITH is something that is believed for which there is no evidence. As it is often said-where there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We do not say that we have faith that the sun will rise each morning; it is something we expect based upon scientific fact and observation. Faith has nothing to do with it. It is only those who make supernatural claims that have need of faith. Peace.

      January 12, 2011 at 13:59 | Report abuse |
  27. CHRIS

    GREAT, now get out of my country

    January 12, 2011 at 13:53 | Report abuse | Reply
  28. Bird

    I hope that ain't a donut the last thing she needs is to put on 200 pounds.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:55 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Klb1110


      January 12, 2011 at 14:29 | Report abuse |
  29. Toby

    "..she just..looks peaceful..happy!" So do most people on mind-altering drugs. This proves nothing about the reality that she proclaims, but it certainly does suggest that she may be out of touch with reality. I do appreciate that you call it "faith" and not try to embarrass yourself by reference to science or empirical evidence like some religious proponents do. Her faith in her god (and likely your own) may be comforting, but remember that those of other religions make the exact same claims about THEIR religion and THEIR god. It is not an argument that holding the belief makes it true-it is only a strong suggestion that people have the ability to blind themselves to reality in exchange for comfort and meaning. Peace.

    January 12, 2011 at 13:56 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Shelby

      Hoiw do you know she was on "mind altering drugs" about the happy smile on her face in NY?..I was in Medical (retired)..I have seen thousands on pain medication & not seen the joy I see in this young ladies face..@toby..why would you say the word "embarrassment" toward me..as if I would be capable of that emotion when I speak of my God..My saviour?..did you find anything to comment on this story about this young ladies strength?..her receiving hope in the new "hands" she has?..or just want to have fun this morning debating your view on God..why is it..God scares you people?..now..back to HER story..she will be the face of positive change toward amputees in Haiti..the thousands that are now amputees due to the earthquake..the look of peace & happiness on this yound womans face is beautiful..she survived something so painful..that it made her stronger..& determined to help others like her..thanks for sharing your story Darline..stay strong! God Bless YOU child:)

      January 12, 2011 at 14:15 | Report abuse |
  30. Parlemort

    There is no heaven,
    There is no hell,
    There is no god,
    I wish you well.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:08 | Report abuse | Reply
  31. STLBroker

    Bob Loblaw– I think every doctor in the world would tell you that people with hope and a positive frame of mind have better recovery rates and a better chance at survival than those that don't. That is probably why they train doctors to instill their patients with hope and a fighting spirit. They may not give God the credit for this phenomena but they realize that it is a real phenomena nonetheless.

    I know this to be the case because we are spiritual beings created by God. Why do I know this? The Holy Spirit gives this type of discernment to people who believe. Those that don't believe just think it is a bunch of bull or attribute this phenomena to something other than God.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:12 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      Yeah, the power of the human mind and will. The same affect can be had praying to ANY god, or gods for that matter.

      January 12, 2011 at 15:05 | Report abuse |
  32. Matt

    Why would she be unhappy. She gets to live in the US for free and milk off the system the rest of her life and the tax payers will pay for it. Pathetic. These poor blacks will end up criminals and welfare cases. When will the US ever learn.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:15 | Report abuse | Reply
  33. Toby

    "I think every doctor in the world would tell you that people with hope and a positive frame of mind have better recovery rates and a better chance at survival than those that don't. That is probably why they train doctors to instill their patients with hope and a fighting spirit."

    So should an oncologist tell a terminally ill patient that she is cancer free and due for a full recovery? This would certainly fit the description of "hope and a positive frame of mind" as you suggest, but at the critical expense of the truth. This oncologist would be making assertions based on no good evidence, simply to placate a dying patient. I'm sure you would regard this doctor's statements as not only unfounded, but actually immoral. No, we must face truth without reference to comforting ideas and delusions. We must respect evidence, weigh facts, and THEN make a rational and informed decision about an idea before we embrace it simply because it makes us feel good and gives us hope. Peace.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:20 | Report abuse | Reply
  34. Toby

    @STLBroker- "I know this to be the case because we are spiritual beings created by God. Why do I know this? The Holy Spirit gives this type of discernment to people who believe."

    I BELIEVE that this is what is known as circular logic; believe as I do and then you will understand why I believe as I do. Nonsense. Peace.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:22 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Shelby

      Darline has put such a beautiful face to the amputees in haiti..her faith in God comforts her..it comforted her when she was trapped for 5 days..I can't even imagine THAT..HER story is inspirational..HER story is about strength & overcoming more pain ahead for her..I am so happy I watched HER video..about HER story..HER belief..Darline you stay strong..& I know you will be the face of change & have a hand in positive change for others like you that are left to die in haiti..what a peaceful & happy face you DARLINE have put to such a tragedy for your country..God bless you child..stay strong..Darline:)

      January 12, 2011 at 14:27 | Report abuse |
  35. Brian

    "there seems to be an all too human tendency to embrace the illogical and absurd in order to explain the unknown.".....

    Yes, the cavemen invented religion when they were terrified by lightning in the sky. I don't really blame them. You would be terrified if you didn't know about electricity. It had to be a god causing the lightning.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:27 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      I, and neuroscience for that matter goes one step further. There is growing evidence that we have evolved to believe in a religion of sorts (same pathways in the brain activated by hallucinogens). I.E. our brain is actually wired to have the faithful/religious experience. In the past million years of human evolution this was to our advantage, we can focus on surviving instead of answering/worrying about the important questions. As our species continues to evolve this advantage is becoming a disadvantage, fighting against the basic logic that is allowing our species to grow.... hopefully in due time, as trends are showing, this adaptation will be lost.

      January 12, 2011 at 15:12 | Report abuse |
  36. STLBroker

    Yes, if one worships logic as the beginning and the end of wisdom, they won't be able to get to know God at all.

    A man being both fully God and fully man is not logical. That God/man healing people, raising the dead and coming back from death himself, is not logical. Yet, he IS the way, the TRUTH and the life.

    I will never fully understand God as His ways and His thoughts are beyond my ability to comprehend even though I have a very firm grasp on what is logical and what isn't. Just like a small child can't comprehend the ways and thoughts of their parents but once we become adults we understand more fully where they were coming from.

    You can get beyond your limited mindset and have your eyes opened if you desire to. Seek and you will find my friend.

    January 12, 2011 at 14:55 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Bob Loblaw

      So by your logic if it sounds crazy and it looks crazy then it is the truth? I am truly at a loss of words for your baffling ludicrous views so I will simply leave you with this: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insanity

      January 12, 2011 at 15:05 | Report abuse |
  37. Roy

    She has expressed her faith, some of you have expressed you like thereof. Try to stick around and see what lies ahead for her. Thousands will be saved by her testimony. Her testimony inspires, where as yours...not so much. In fact if you are honest with yourself you are jealous because others believe in something other than the decaying flesh we are confined to here. Yes God is love, but He is also capable of wrath. I too once thought it all a fairy tale until faced with the reality that I am in control of nothing without the help of God. I found out that God forgives EVERY wrong, all it takes for us to do is ask. God so loved us that He allowed Christ to suffer in our place, and allow us a chance for redemption to mankind's original state. The thing is that GOD allows EACH of us to make our own choice. And that has nothing to do with religion – He desires a personal relationship with you – not your mother, father, wife, son, aunt – You. On your last day you will remember which decision you made.

    January 12, 2011 at 15:09 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      " In fact if you are honest with yourself you are jealous because others believe in something other than the decaying flesh we are confined to here"...... yes of course ignorance is bliss, that is nothing new.

      January 12, 2011 at 15:38 | Report abuse |
  38. STLBroker

    A computer is much more logical than you and I Bob. Is it superior? If not, why not? It is the utimate example of what you claim we should stive to be like. Completely logical.

    The answer is no, it isn't because it has no soul and it can't express love. Which by the way is very illogical. Why would a person express love. Often times love requires a sacrifice on our part and costs us dearly. That is very illogical. Jesus being nailed to a cross to pay for everyone's sins when he did nothing wrong is very illogical.

    If there is anyone in your life that you love and make sacrifices for? If so, great. But you must realize that you are behaving very illogically by not just looking out for numero uno.

    If there is someone you love then multiply that love a trillion times and you will begin to understand how God feels about us. Not logical since we are all broken and imperfect and don't deserve it but I am very grateful that God is illogical in this fashion.

    The fact that there is some love in this world is proof of God's existence. Otherwise we would all just be intelligent animals or computers and love would not be logical at all.

    January 12, 2011 at 15:28 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Roy

      Man that is so cool. Hope you don't mind if I share it.

      January 12, 2011 at 15:40 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Please look up altruism

      January 12, 2011 at 15:42 | Report abuse |
  39. CD

    I think the thing that amazes me most about these posts is how much anger and resentment so-called atheists have toward those who are believers in God. You do not have the answers to life, so do not act as though you do. You are not smarter than those who believe, but you act as though you are. You are the the new Lucifers – too arrogant to follow the beauty of God. St Michael, pray for them and all of us. Protect us from the devil who uses his lies to confuse.

    January 12, 2011 at 15:36 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      Atheists do not say they have answers only questions.... We have "much anger and resentment" for those who claim they have "false" answers. The truth is man kind really knows nothing and that is no excuse to make stuff up. Unless one is of such a weak mind they need answers, no matter where or WHO they come from.

      January 12, 2011 at 15:41 | Report abuse |
  40. Santiago


    January 12, 2011 at 15:41 | Report abuse | Reply
  41. STLBroker

    Roy, sure you can share it. Just please correct my grammar mistakes before you do. LOL

    January 12, 2011 at 15:42 | Report abuse | Reply
  42. A Matter of Faith

    I will always find it amazing to witness the swarm of non-believers articles about belief attract. You will never understand a persons faith until you yourself step out on faith. It is encouraging though to see that you all are still searching for someone to provide the proof you so desire. But for that my friend, you must ask God himself. I assure you that He will provide what you need in a very personal, intimate and real way. I dare you to clear your heart of all preconceptions and sincerely talk to God. You may not get an audible response, but I know you will get a response.

    January 12, 2011 at 16:23 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      The greatest evil of mankind is acting in faith.
      The greatest folly of mankind is belief without proof.
      The greatest crimes of mankind are perpetrated in the name of grace.
      The greatest indignity of mankind is the hope of redemption.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:33 | Report abuse |
    • A Matter of Faith

      The greatest evil of mankind is to harm your fellow man
      The greatest folly of man is to require proof to believe in anything
      The greatest crimes against man are perpetuated in the name of man
      The greatest indignity of man is to believe all things were created by accident

      All pain is not evil
      All evil is not pain

      January 12, 2011 at 16:48 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Mankind is greater than any 'god', for we are the inventors of faith.
      Mankind is the storytellers, the creators & the destroyers.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:50 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”- Seneca

      January 12, 2011 at 16:51 | Report abuse |
    • A Matter of Faith

      Man invented nothing..only discovered what was placed here and in our brains and hearts for our benefit. Yes man combines, but creates nothing original on this planet. The power to discern and discover was given by God to man disguised as intelligence. We are not smart enough to outhink, or out create God.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:56 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      There are hundreds if not thousands of ancient gods. They were loved, feared, prayed to. But people eventually lost faith in them. When men took away their belief, these gods ceased to exist. I'm sure "your god" is different.

      January 12, 2011 at 17:00 | Report abuse |
    • A Matter of Faith

      There is only one who's influence was so great that it changed time. He changed my life..very intimately and personally. That is my proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. What is yours that He does not exist? Man will talk himself out of anything if it restricts him from what he ultimately wants to do and who he wants to be. He will abandon his belief based on desire to do something contrary to that belief. That does not mean God does not exist. It just means man has chosen not to believe.

      January 12, 2011 at 17:08 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      A matter, first subjective experiences are proof of nothing.. anywhere.
      Also, can't you use the exact same logic for believing in your god, it is your "desire" because "He changed my life..very intimately and personally". So essentially desire is the reason for your faith.

      January 12, 2011 at 17:40 | Report abuse |
    • A Matter of Faith

      "first subjective experiences are proof of nothing.. anywhere" – except to the person experiencing it. Desire was the beginning of my faith. God turned that faith into fact for me. I choose freely to believe it or not. People refuse to believe all kinds of facts until they are sufficiently proven to them. This does not begin or end the facts existance. BTW- I know at least 2,000 people in my local area who have had the same proof I speak of. How may does the textbook say we need?

      January 12, 2011 at 18:48 | Report abuse |
  43. STLBroker

    Okay so I looked up altruism.

    Altruism- the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.

    How is that logical? Wouldn't one be better off without having to be concerned with others? We would have more money, more time and less stress if we didn't behave altruistically.

    If the atheist on here believe that people should be altruistic, I'm confused as to why. If there is no God, then there is no right and wrong. No good or evil. I have heard some atheist say "just do good for goodness sake", If there is no God then my definition of "good" changes completely. Good would be having as much personal comfort and pleasure as possible which would eliminate any and all altruistic behaviors I might have. They just wouldn't make sense, they wouldn't be logical.

    The fact that the atheists on here do have a sense of good and evil. The fact that they love certain people and will sacrifice for them. The fact that they realize that killing someone is bad but helping them is "good", is proof that we have souls. That we are not just logical animals. That there is a God. That he created us. That he loves us. And because he loved us first, we have the ability and the desire to love others.

    It isn't logical. Love can not be seen or quantified and put on a spreadsheet. But it's evidence is all around us. Whether we give God credit for it or not.

    January 12, 2011 at 16:36 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      I guess I stand corrected, you my friend are proof that humans still need religion; I never actually heard someone say they only reason they are good is out of fear of god, really scary. You obviously do not care about the human species and its future, the ONLY thing that we have in this universe. I guess I need to thank you for the insight into the darkness and ignorance that is still left in man kind. And BTW, there is a massive amount of evolutionary data on altruism and how it benefits a population. It all comes down to the Buddhist philosophy to the end of human suffering, Humanists would like to create heaven on earth.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:48 | Report abuse |
    • Tommas

      Spirituality, not as a ghost separate from the body, but as emotions such as love, and behaviors such as altruism, are in our genetics because it helps to propagate the species. It is divine and magical, and amazing & wondrous – but it is nothing created, nothing intervened upon, nothing that cannot be logically analyzed and calculated. We evolved from the earth to a state of rational empathy, like a tree grows towards the light, through a wholly natural process in a wholly natural universe.

      January 12, 2011 at 16:49 | Report abuse |
  44. STLBroker

    ". It is divine and magical, and amazing & wondrous – but it is nothing created, nothing intervened upon, nothing that cannot be logically analyzed and calculated."

    I also looked up "divine".

    divine- of or pertaining to a god, esp. the Supreme Being.

    Okay so we are spiritual and divine beings but God didn't create us? I guess you are too smart for me because that makes absolutely no sense to me.

    You ridicule me for needing religion and then talk about Buddhists and Humanists to support your opinion that we are spiritual and divine beings. Whatever.

    January 12, 2011 at 17:05 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      You had to look up divine?

      January 12, 2011 at 17:41 | Report abuse |
  45. STLBroker

    Honey, will you marry me? I feel a great amount of "rational empathy" towards you. LOL

    January 12, 2011 at 17:20 | Report abuse | Reply
    • Tommas

      We created those words and their definitions based on our subjective experiences. You use the word divine to describe your personified deity, I use it to describe that which is greater then I.

      January 12, 2011 at 17:32 | Report abuse |
  46. Soleada

    This girl was lucky. My big bro's best friend lost an arm in a terrible drunk driving accident. He was later sent to rehab on the other side of the country. His mother (who was his only living relative) passed away just 5 months after he left. He ended up committing suicide not long after that. It was very hard for my brother & me.

    Anyway, I cant say whether I believe in God. I definitely believe that The Bible was written to scare us all into submission & I dont beliece in a God who discriminates against the LGBT community. I'm not 1 for religious debate & I avoid church like the plague, but that's kinda where I stand.

    January 12, 2011 at 17:58 | Report abuse | Reply
  47. Soleada

    This girl was lucky. My big bro's best friend lost an arm in a terrible drunk driving accident. He was later sent to rehab on the other side of the country. His mother (who was his only living relative) passed away just 5 months after he left. He ended up committing suicide not long after that. It was very hard for my brother & me.

    Anyway, I cant say whether I believe in God. I definitely believe that The Bible was written to scare us all into submission & I dont beliece in a God who discriminates against the LGBT community. I'm not 1 for religious debate & I avoid church like the plague, but that's kinda where I stand.

    January 12, 2011 at 17:58 | Report abuse | Reply
  48. Jessica Boyle

    Hi Dr. Gupta, my name is Jessica and my 11 year old son has a rare epileptic condition called Dravet Syndrome. His case has been so severe that he had a hemispherectomy at age 2 and continues to seize everyday. His right hemishpere is slowly deteriorating and yet his determination, perseverence, spirit remain strong. He (Ciaran) is amazing. I would love for you to meet him and perhaps feature him on "The Human Factor". His story is shocking and unbelievable and I would love to share it with you even if you don't choose to feature it.

    July 18, 2011 at 13:25 | Report abuse | Reply
  49. Sally92

    I seriously think that most of you who commented have no consideration for this young woman's courage. For all she has been and going through, instead of encouraging her and showing some moral suport. You guys were just being irrelevant. Seriously! And to think you are adults.

    March 13, 2012 at 12:35 | Report abuse | Reply
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