September 1st, 2010
12:01 AM ET
Study: Insomnia is deadly for men
Insomnia kills. That’s the central finding of a large study looking at men who complained of chronic insomnia and slept fewer than six hours a night.
Men with insomnia were more than four times as likely to die as “good sleepers” during the 14-year study, published Wednesday in the journal Sleep.
Add hypertension or diabetes, and men with insomnia were seven times as likely to die as those not suffering from sleep problems, the study found.
“We were expecting to find something, but we were surprised by the magnitude of the findings,” said lead investigator Dr. Alexandros N. Vgontzas, a professor of psychiatry at Penn State College of Medicine and Hershey Medical Center in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
Self-reported chronic insomnia plus lack of sleep among women did not result in more deaths among women.
The study did not elaborate why, but Vgontzas said he sees two possibilities: Insomnia among women could be less severe, or the study did not follow women long enough. The study began looking at women later than men and followed them for only ten years, not 14.
The study randomly chose 1,741 people in central Pennsylvania, 1,000 women and 741 men, with an average age of 50. Of that group, 8 percent women and 4 percent of men complained of chronic insomnia and slept fewer than six hours when they were measured in a sleep laboratory.
The study adjusted for such factors as age, body mass index, smoking status, alcohol use, depression and obstructive sleep apnea.
Among the men who did not have insomnia, 9 percent died. Of those who complained of insomnia but slept more than six hours, 13 percent died. Among the insomniacs who slept fewer than 6 hours, 51 percent died.
Previous studies have linked lack of sleep with learning and memory problems and increased risks for diabetes and hypertension.
Although the study places those who sleep six or more hours in the “good sleepers” category, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine recommends seven or eight hours of sleep a night. Vgontzas said the six hours was used for the purposes of the study and not to imply six hours is sufficient.
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Get a behind-the-scenes look at the latest stories from CNN Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen and the CNN Medical Unit producers. They'll share news and views on health and medical trends - info that will help you take better care of yourself and the people you love.
I also see they were trying to make excuses for the fragile male by saying "Insomnia among women could be less severe, or the study did not follow women long enough." However, later it said they studied 1,000 women and 741 men, with an average age of 50. Of that group, 8 percent women and 4 percent of men complained of chronic insomnia and slept fewer than six hours when they were measured in a sleep laboratory so it seems that the most likely cause of the male deaths from lack of sleep is that males are much more fragile than women. How else do they explain a lot of male deaths and then state chronic insomnia plus lack of sleep among women did not result in more deaths among women. I know people do not like to hear it, especially males because we all know that the male ego is fragile too but this does show the superiority of women and if the males can acknowledge they are the inferior sex, maybe they can get help in the many areas they are weaker in.
Kathy honey, men don't have an ego problem. Men aren't the ones who claim to be made of sugar and spice and everything nice. Men don't compete for the title of MISS UNIVERSE, or all these other ridiculous beauty pageants.
I'd like to be God and know who would've died anyways whether or not they had insomnia. Everyone knows that females live longer than males anyways. Accidents, stupidity (which causes their accidents), HEART, accidental shootings, whatever. I've been living with insomnia now for about .. oh.. forever it seems (maybe a year). If I die from an accident and I am an insomnia, I died from an accident, not insomnia. Show me one male who died from not doing anything else for 14 years. Did he really sit home and do nothing for 14 years?! Same with the females for 10 years?
Some studies are really ridiculous.
But I strongly agree that men have way too much of a huge ego! They really think they are the better sex cause they have.. well, more muscles and something between their legs.
You are a moron. Who thinks she's smart.
Just because she disagrees with what you believe, that does not make her a moron. Nor does it make her correct.
Oh cr@p, I'm dead..
Not looking good for me !!
If I work out, but don't sleep – will that balance it out? uh oh....
Wow, I'm dead also.
Who cares about Kathy. Where is Edna?
How did these men die? A sleepless irritable street fight, road rage, violence? Drug abuse? Were they not sleeping because they were homeless? In a bad stressful marriage? Constantly under stress for some socio-economic reason? WHAT? How? This study is a PRIME EXAMPLE of the potential for the abuse of statistics. STATISTICS are great for "docking at the space station" with a 80% level of confidence. However, to "define the complexities of life" is an abuse. SOMEONE SHOULD PULL this "researcher's credentials". This type of "science" leads to mistruths like "build a manager" PMI PM training and certification, and "buy a college degree" dysfunction. It's an outrageous and misleading abuse of statistics to justify an agenda. That is my opinion.
In the wee: No, it will kill you quicker.
Awww . . . did someone get their ego bruised? Can't accept the glaring evidence that women hold up better? Gawd forbid that women be stronger and healthier than men! You appear to be the moron here, meester. Keep the ad hominem attacks comin', you worthless tart.
Okay I forgot that Mister, is spelt Meester. Seriously are you retarded or just seven years old. Grow the hell up, act like an adult, and get your facts straight before you start using your DSL's to spew your crap.
Kathy, are you married? Do you have a son? ...I assume you have a father. In my opinion you are either a men hater or just (most likely) ugly and stupid.
She does not hate males, she loves them and want to be around. Can't you read?
Kathy, maybe it is the passive-aggresive tone of your post. Outright saying that men are not necessary in one sentence and then offering a token statement of compassion afterwards does not sit well with some people. Some of your information has merit; however, it is difficult for some to swallow so thinly disguised.
Kathy, I think that maybe you should sleep with all these men every night. Then I am pretty sure they would be tired and have no problems sleeping :p
Yes stranger I am married and have been for 25 years but my husband is not afraid to admit his weakeness and he seeks help for them. He is the one who has shown me that men are the weaker sex and he has taken the lead to teach our sons and daughters this.
Kathy, why is it that white men are being portrayed as weak and stupid lately? (I'm not saying that this article mentioned anything about race) however, 90% of today's commercials show white men as complete idiots. Here's how it goes, smartest to stupidest: black woman, black man, white woman, and then any thing from a ferret, to monkey, to alien and the a white male. That just cracks me up lol. .... Not that it has anything to do with our previous posts or this article.
It's sad to see one insane woman is ruining this comment format on CNN for other people
Well said Jim well said...
Methinks your husband is in the closet, that is all.
Perhaps the man is knowingly committing slow suicide to get away from condescending women. Divorce might lead to alimony and heavy support payments so the easiest out is to off themselves, plus what man would feel comfortable in bed next to someone who thinks so lowly of their partner?
My mother-in-law always said that males are weak; so I should take a great care of her son. Kinda neat, don't you think?
Kathy, you talk a lot of trash that you can't back up. If males are weak, maybe females should register for the selective service. Maybe females should stop day dreaming of a knight in shining armor. Maybe women should grow some balls and ask a man out, get down on a knee and propose marriage, wine and dine men and be chivalrous. Maybe women should kill that scary spider or pick up that dead mouse instead of screaming and jumping on the couch. Maybe women should be out mowing the lawn and breaking all the athletic world records. Maybe they should open their own bottles of ketchup. Me and my girl are equals, and that's why we're so happy together.
Why do husband's die before their wives? Because they WANT to!
Kathy – So your husband couldnt stand you any longer, went out and tagged some younger hardbody, got caught or admitted it, you hold it over his head for the rest of his life, and he dies fat and happy knowing that his failings are because he is a male and there isnt anything that could possibly be wrong with you that would be worth changing or modifying? Did I miss anything?
I love a good internet troll
Women get ill with all manner of sicknesses. Men don't go crying to dr. Feelgood. Women are weaker.
Wow Kathy! You can string words together to make sentences! Congratulations. I'd take the time to correct your reasoning, but why bother? You're probably too set in your ways to make a difference. I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure you have a great future ahead of you working with Sarah Palin, Glen Beck, or anyone else who likes to make arguments that aren't based on logic or reason.
I'm actually a woman. And as you can tell Kathy is the butch lesbo here
Why you always fighting with me? Even on the web
cause u r the weaker sex...lol....poor u
Kathys husband...LOL girl, you are cracking us all up!! Who is holding some kind of grudge against women? Did Mommy bathe you until you were 30 or something?? Kathy's only mistake was to use the word "weak" – which you picked up and ran with. Weak does not have to mean a weak mind or body because of something that individual did by choice. Males and females have different reactions to pain and stress...and most of the science that came up with those results came before many women were even in the field of biology. So you have your fellow males to blame, for the most part. This is not new news, which is not surprising for CNN anyway.
Here some chicken wings and your remote....now let's use words that sweetums understands....How about 'men die earlier because their biology/bodies, generally, may not handle stress as well over the long-term" or maybe they dont seek help as fast from doctors because the high stress chemical levels keep them in a flight or fight syndrome where pain is minimized for survival (not a lion or bear anymore, just by daily life). Its not emasculating to go to the doctor, which a few men have intimated on here....its smart and if you were a man and cared about your family, at all, you would realize that its manly to be healthy and present (instead of dead) for your partner and kids.
Also, the comments about how men are portrayed in commercials (e.g. as weak, etc.). I am an historian and trust me, women have had about 400 years of ads and press centered around how weak and stupid woman and minorities are...its time to take your medicine. Get over yourself. It just stings to be called out on scientific studies that prove some part of observed stereotypes. Although I am sure you would be all over an article that says that some women have trouble concentrating while ovulating because of increased hormone levels. SEE, I KNEW THOSE WOMEN WERE CRAZY....just cut and paste that when the time is needed...will save you a few keystrokes.
WAHHHH men are the coolest, you cant make fun of us??!?! WAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! What a crybaby...
Yup! Men ARE the weaker sex... that's why Adam so willingly followed Eve and took the apple she handed him and he ate... sexual drive will drive many men to do really, REALLY stupid things... like do the very thing that God told him NOT to do, and ruin everything for the rest of humanity from then on... gotz ta follow the perty lady... do whatever she sez... even if it messes up all of creation! Stupid Adam!
Actually, stupid YOU, since in your narrowminded thinking, you think it's only men that can make wrong and hurtful decisions based on sex. If you were open-minded, instead of a Bible-thumper, you would realize that men have strengths in certain areas of life, and so do women. One sex is NOT stronger or superior over another.
And when she speaks of our children she is referring to our 27 cats
you are cracking me up!! Thank you for the morning laughs!
Honestly though. I feel that you and lupo have deeply been hurt by a male that you looked up to. Be it your father or x husband or boys growing up. Rather than try to get on some soapbox about how women are better than men maybe you should get some counseling to get over whoever hurt you.
There's an Elin Nordegren in many women looool
Ha ha ha... Kathy if you ever do read down this far I really would suggest you get some help... It can even be woman doctor so you know you're getting the very best care.
Let's ask the same question of you....why the hate? Were you abused by your mother or a nun? Did your wife leave your for another women? Why the personal attacks instead of discourse? You are really making men look bad by just lashing out...why is this article such a big deal for you...you seem so ticked off about such an inane (and re-hashed) subject?
Men may very well be the weaker sex in many areas, but I'm sure that one reason they're dying earlier is if they're with a woman who disrespects them. Who is hell-bent on showing her "superiority". Well guess what? Men aren't superior to women, and the reverse is true as well.
I don't feel that I'm inferior to you or any other woman. If I am inferior, it's because of my actions, NOT because I'm a man and you're a woman! I feel sorry for people like you; thinking that you're superior to men, you must be very lonely, or if you're in a relationship with a man, you must be very condescending, and/or USE him for your wants and needs. How superior that makes you........NOT!
Runner... It's true, she is very condescending... And she makes our sons wear dresses to her man-hater meetings
I'm cold.... why am I in this mason jar, and what's that turkey baster for...?
As far as suggesting that Kathy gets some help, it's certainly a great suggestion, but ...probably one that will be scoffed at. After all, she's a woman, and that makes her automatically superior to all men (in her mind). I'm just thankful that I'm not with her or any of the other condescending women out there in the world. I don't want or need that garbage in my life. Too many women out there who treat men right, to be around a crabapple.
True that... Anyone else notice there are more men posting... Does that mean that more men will die soon from insomnia? Shiz, maybe we should close this comment board before the sane men die and the world is left with 130lb men that Kathy pushes around
If you bothered to keep up with the current research you would find that the Y chromosome has a lot going for it. You made this into a gender war and that was not necessary. If you want to believe the decades old disinformation that made the rounds about males being not needed, fine – but that data has long been eclipsed. Study current genetics research. from Times Online, 2010 "Research has indicated that, far from stagnating, the male chromosome is a hotspot of evolution that is changing more quickly than any other part of humanity’s genetic code."
I live in a world and family of wonderful people – men and women. And both are necessary and needed and wanted and I care about the health of everyone.
Hahahaha! The comments have been a real hoot. I'm a woman, by the way. LOL. I don't think one (male or female) is any more important than the other. We compliment and balance each other in all our strengths & weaknesses. We were made that way – it's evolution. Surely we are not wired the same but neither is more important or "better" than the other. That's assinine to think that way IMHO.
Shush! Please, don't spoil the fun and wake them.
I made myself a baby and am expecting around the holidays.
Together we will rule the world one day....hehehe
Last time I slept was in the womb and I am turning 243 next month.
The increase in insomniac men dying is dramatic! This issue really needs further study to understand what is happening.
RE: Kathy's Husband - very funny - You always fight with me even on the web! 🙂
well,i'm an insomniac. sure, it bothers me, but i certainly won't lose any sleep over it.
Tranquila d0t c0m – sleep like a baby. It's all because stress.
The men in the study were from central Pennsylvania, not the healthiest of specimens to begin with...most are grossly overweight, have had a lifetime of bad eating habits, alot of them smoke and they love their beer....I'm thinking these things had something to do with it
How provincial of you!
Not everyone in PA has a beer in one hand and a cheesesteak in the other, with a Pall-Mall hanging from thier lips.
That 'thinking' thing....yea....you might want to leave that to the more qualified...
You know this? You personally went to the area that the study was performed in and interviewed the study subjects?
Frankly, for all you know, the study could have been done with the Amish as study participants. And I haven't EVER saw an Amish smoking and slurping down a beer. Nor are there many overweight Amish.
I just LOVE people who generalize.
maybe, but odds are the ones you're talking about are getting lots of sleep when they pass out, thus negating the insomnia factor.
I've suffered from chronic insomnia now for the last six years, sleeping less than four hours nightly (when totaled- I'm up almost every hour) and have (untreated) obstructive apnea. My issue- our current health care coverage does not pay for the proper sleep study, nor the C-PAP equipment that will likely be required to 'correct' the issue. Between my wife's medical bills and the day-to-day cost of living, there's no room left for such 'luxuries' as a life-preserving treatment such as I might require before I keel over dead.
For all of those who decry a more universally accessible health care system, I say "Thank you", from the bottom of my heart and the burlap-lined pine box I no doubt cant' afford to be buried in.
Don't despair. You'll be in good company with the lack of universal health care. The US is a leading the world in medical triumphs, such as double the infant mortality rate of any industrialized nation in the world. Spending 2.5 times per capita what EVERY NATION spends on health care and yet we still lead the way in earlier deaths, higher morbidity and higher number of disabilities than the rest of the industrialized nations of the world.
We're the BEST. At failing.
So, we don't need universal health care, we can just die with dignity. Early.
Actually, the reason men have more health problems than women is a very simple and scientific one; the Y chromosome. I even heard somewhere that they think it's getting even smaller, but that's something for you to look into on your own. The truth of the matter though is that men are far more susceptible to genetic dispositions that weaken their health simply because they only need the one genetic trait (which is usually a recessive one) on the X chromosome which doesn't have a corresponding genetic trait on the Y chromosome to over ride it, and voila, you have color blindness and balding along with a slew of other more serious conditions. It's basic biology that should be being taught in high school (although given the state of our school systems, I could understand the ignorance). Now this doesn't actually prove that men are 'weaker' than women because this 'weakness' is purely perception and something that is being driven by current social issues. So just because insomnia is linked to a higher risk of death in men doesn't necessarily mean men are weaker than women; but in the reverse, women are certainly not weaker than men either. It'd be better for everyone involved if they could simply understand that men and women are just different, not necessarily equal but certainly not one better than the other, just different.
Funny, I've never heard of fragile Y syndrome before. I HAVE heard of fragile X though.
There are plenty of genetic malfunctions in both sexes. That doesn't account for the earlier mortality of males.
What does is the effects of androgens. Males were built for my physical, inherently dangerous tasks, such as hunting and warfare. While warfare may not have been an initial stimulus, it certainly developed early, as is evidenced in the archeological record.
So, the male is essentially built for a shorter "shelf life", dying younger and the female finding another mate for her later years, again in the archeological record.
The valuation expressed in utero for the male is a 3:1 male to female ratio, with males yet again leading the death rate in utero (typically before the female is even aware of pregnancy, as the embryo may not even survive to implant).
Reviewing immune systems, one finds a female immune system to be more aggressive than the male. This is good for rearing and support functions but is a double edged sword, as females suffer orders of magnitude higher instances of auto-immune diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc. Indeed, to successfully carry to term, the female immune system is "turned down" (down regulated by hormonal modulation) so that her body does not reject the fetus.
Immune factors are then up modulated upon the end of pregnancy and immune factors expressed through milk.
But for anyone to consider that superior, it is a non-issue. It's comparing unlike items for equality. Is the stone better than water? Well, I can use a stone as a hammer, but I can't drink it. And I can't hammer with water, but I can drink it.
I can also boil water with a heated stone. Hence, there is no logic in the argument of better, superior or inferior.
That all said, for the woman who thinks she is equal in the physical arena to a man, I'll suggest an experiment.
Go view an American Bison. Consider that your life depends on eating it. You only have spears. How many of your fellow women will you require to do this. Remember that the Bison IS a vicious animal and WILL attack you on sight.
6 men are well documented for a hunting party for this, with three spear men, the rest diversionary and driving the animal.
In such matters, it's brute force. Sorry, it is what it is. Reality.
Women COULD do it, but at a higher casualty rate and a substantially larger party. And larger parties scare off more game than they can catch.
now, that's being completely frank.
This has been great. "Kathys Husband" is my e-hero! The comments where better then the half hearted study.
the people on this forum cannot comprehend this biological minutiae. it's spiritus mundi that keeps people thriving & alive, so cease with the pseudo scientific jive. alea jacta est. you are all cretins of middling magnitude!
I think the reason us men are dying from insomnia is actually a subconscious suicide. With wives like Kathy we are desperate to checkout as soon as possible to free ourselves of the constant nagging, biatching, closed legged strategies and exposure to toxic mother-in-laws that we simply say, to hell with it, I'm better off dead.
Well Kathy, it's clear from a study within this comment section that you're just a blowhard who never amounted to anything superior, particularly where intellect is of relevance. Chalk up another resentful man-hater who crosses the line into muff grinding with her "partner" as a way to adjust to her psychosis.
I am a Ph.D. researcher. A couple clarification points
1) 4 percent of the men in the study reported to be chronic insomniacs – that is only a sample of 30 men (if the total
sample is 741 men). So, 16 died. Important – but needs to be replicated.
2) What did the chronic insomniac men died of? You don't die from lack of sleep – what are the causes/correlates of death? Did any die from accidents, not just disease.
3) I assumed they adjusted for occupation, total weight – not just BMI, height. There could have been some cluster among the 30 men (worked in a steel mill, etc) that caused this unexpected finding.
4) How often did they measure their sleep. From the article it only appears once. Did the people keep a sleep journal. There is a lot of slippage in the definition.
5) Why are 8 percent of women (double the rate of men) chronic insomiacs. Maybe women take more naps and their way of categorizing women underestimated the rate.
Regardless, somehow 16 out of 30 male insomniacs died within 14 years. This is very likely an anomaly although
no doubt there is some correlation to less sleep and earlier death – but not because of lack of sleep in and of itself.
I have had several girlfriends (much smaller than me) and they needed far less sleep. My anecdotal understanding
is that smaller people (smaller machine) needs less down time. that seems to have some basic logic.
Its not that the research is bad, its just that both researchers often don't know how to interpret their own study results. And the media is unskilled is understanding, interpreting and presenting it to the audience.
I to am a research type and the VERY HIGH base line death rate caught me too. I wouldn't expect a 9% baseline death rate if the study was just of centurians...
My primary objections are the over simplification of the data, lack of information on the data set, lack of information on what methods the adjustments for lifestyle, etc and the late inclusion of females that are reported on compounding confusing data set standards. If you are fairly well into a study and amend it, what else is being changed? Changes in an established study can easily taint all findings if they're not carefully planned and implemented.
Frankly, this is another instance where I wish CNN would mirror what the BBC does and provide a link to the study report.
The reason men die sooner is because of women like Kathy. I'd kill myself if I had to deal with a condescending bitch like that. We're all equal. But still not if you know what I mean. They say we don't act like gentlemen anymore. But the essence of being equal is having no special treatment. I treat a woman like I'd treat any man out there. Deserving of respect only if a reason to do so is given.
hey kathy your stupid.
Danny, that "you're" stupid. Geez
It's 'that's'. You're both stupid.....
I must have read something incorrectly or my superior female brain just read too much into this artcle because I thought it was about sleep or the lack of it! I didn't see anywhere that it mentions anything about women being superior to men! It could be that I only slept 5.5 hours last night but I am female so I don't have anything to worry about, right?
This article states "Among the insomniacs who slept fewer than 6 hours, 51 percent died." Ok, I am a woman and I am definitely not superior to anyone, male or female, in math but it looks like to me that if you are an insomniac your chances of dying are really about the same (51% versus 49%) as if you weren't an insomniac. Is that right or am I missing something? One more thing about this "study". It doesn't really state why the 51% died and how those deaths directly related to lack of sleep. Either this study is worthless or the writer left out a lot of important information!
It's CNN. A LOT gets left out that turns good data into bird cage liner. This is written as bad as many of the Gupta articles.
Clearly I am a member of the weaker sex. I am old, and I can't sleep without drugs. The only thing I ever had going for me was I could carry more groceries at once than my wife. Now neither of us can carry but one bag at a time. Life as I knew it has ended. I've always used more oxygen than the average female, so....... farewell, Kathy. More fresh air for you!
Just the tone of this idiotic post reveals a person who has severe, shall we say, "envy" problems. Sorry you didn't get one Kathy. Anyway, women are here to feed children and women have to wake up all night long to feed the baby. That is why nature made you need less sleep. Men have to do the hard work, and in some cases at least all the thinking, so we need more sleep.
Of course its "kills". What else is going to get me to click on this worthless story?
Thanks for your enlightening article Kathy. Is CNN paying you for your work? You've put more work into this than their writers do (which really really really isn't saying much).
Women are tough and do seem to be holding up better than men in certain areas. But what about the menstruating 5-year-old girls? Are not females also negatively susceptible to the chemical beating? What good is it to say that one sex is faring better when both are suffering dramatically in so many ways? Consider how many women suffer from reproduction issues or need fertility drugs to reproduce. All is not peachy with the "weaker sex" either.
Really, this whole forum sounds like something posted by a bunch of children. And a lot of hypocrites. No wonder there is so much crime and war - we would rather attack another person for their 'beliefs' than just voice our own opinions in an adult and objective fashion. I honestly don't care about what Kathy said, and looking at it objectively, I only see her opinion. I do not judge her or have any prejudice for I will never know what kind of person she is. For all you know, she's your best friend, or your sister, or your own mother. People say a lot of things that rub me the wrong way and I don't attack them for it, but what I really can't stand is people attacking their brothers and sisters. Then, I just have to say something. You share the same genes and blood. We should be more unified as humanity, because it's the only one we have.
Wait...holy sh*t...people can DIE?! WHY DID NOBODY TELL US?!
"Men with insomnia were more than four times as likely to die.." In truth, men and women both share 100% mortality. No one is more likely to die then anyone else.
Oh get over yourselves, this is serious, and needs deeper study, also the study into sleep apnoea. People, GOD created us all as equals, Eve screwed it up, the punishment was subservience, HOWEVER the ORIGINAL PLAN was for us to be co-equals, and you know what, we all, both sides, have our weaknesses, and Eve only did what was in GOD's plan of redemption. I myself appreciate the wonderful mechanics which make up our bodies, and is proof positive, that there is a GOD, and he made us ALL .... why do we need to know who is better or who is worse, help each other up, don't push one down, so you can stand on the corpse of another to try and look good,. I will always first look at your feet, to see how you are standing, before putting you on a pedestal of corpses.
Eve screwed it up? Let's re-examine that theory.
Either you reject that Adam had free will OR you are stating they were equal and Adam accepted orders from Eve.
The former was in evidence in that story. The latter is NOT in evidence.
Eve screwed up and listened to the serpent (we'll not discuss the serpent allegory). Adam screwed up and listened to Eve.
In short, BOTH screwed up.
I'm guessing that you believe that the entire universe was created in 6 days and one off for good behavior too?
Anita – Eve didn't screw it up, you've simply fallen for the rewrite of already-existing creation myths by the patriarchal Xtian church ca. 500-700 CE to justify their political will of women's subservience. Everyone would do well to take a deep breath, and study ancient history, since the male/female thing seems to be a real problem here, particularly to the men. Prior to the Judeo-Xtian era, people were recognized as equal with particular and complimentary roles in society, and it was also recognized that as the actual creators – that is, those who actually create life within their bodies – women were closest to the God/dess and as such, were the priestesses and shamans and leaders. btw, where do you think modern medicine – of which this study is a part – has its roots? Before BigPharma, etc., people relied on herbs and other plant materials, and women have always been the garden-keepers. The Eden of the bible is a patriarchal myth, rewritten by "The Church" to serve men's political (NOT religious) aspirations, swallowed hook, line, and sinker by our "modern" society. Hence all the bruised egos here by Kathy's words. Kathy is right. Read your ancient history. There are in fact women who have undefined problems with men – while simplistic, as all generalizations are, I chalk it up to the millenia of women being relegated to the rank of 2nd class "Eves" – but every man – and woman – here who is miffed by Kathy's words needs to thank a woman – their own mother – for their life. Daddy merely provided the spark, Momma did the work. The "original plan" of "god" is a delusion. You want to hear whining? Let's see a man go through childbirth – most men I've met revert to infantile behavior when they have just a cold... So the insomnia/death relation in men surprises me not a bit.
Ana, I drew on apocryphal sources and other myths that predate those in my argument above, while keeping it on the brief side.
Regarding the sex differences in the study, I'll have to reject them due to late inclusion poisoning the data. It's incomplete, so it'll have to be repeated to be an acceptable study, where BOTH sexes are represented in equal numbers and tracking.
I'd also like to see what adjustments they made. All too often good studies were turned into bird cage liner due to cooking numbers in such a way as to tilt the results toward what the researcher wanted to prove.
This is a classic case of "Go back and try it again".
And when one brings in the sex question on god or godess, if there is one, there is no need for a sex. Having a sex implies duality, male and female. It also implies reproduction. As there is no hint of God of any, to include gnostic faiths, reproducing, one must rule out an assigned sex.
Something you'll never see a male dominated church do, especially one that selected WHICH books to include in their "holy" texts (as was selected by a handful of bishops and Emperor Constantine) in their bible. And especially where one monotheistic faith group gives their God multiple personality disorder.
But, if you look at the original stories of "Adam" and "Eve", BOTH disobeyed. Hence, BOTH were punished equally.
But, as I once said to an Arab, "My God can beat up YOUR God any day". He exclaimed, "But he's the same God!"
I replied, "I know, who else could beat God up but 'himself'?" To which he laughed and poured more tea. And believe it or not, we got along VERY well. Because with that exchange, what was displayed was an acceptance of mutual similarities of faith AND acknowledging our differences and the lack of importance of such between US. And yes, that is a true story.
Nice theory but... we own everything. All that "figuring out" you mention, ya, all done by men. We own the research labs that we do all the "figuring out" in too. As a female you might... hmmm, answer the phone or bring me cofee, you know, women stuff. It's a great help though, we'd be strained to do all the "figuring out" without it.
Think I'm joking? Quick, name 5 internationally known business women... Ya, stopped at two, maybe three huh? Rupert Murdoch, Al Gore, Donald Trump, George Soros, Ted Turner, right of the top of my head. When you gals start owning everything under the sun give us a call. Until then, could you bring me some coffee, mine is getting a little stale.
Lara Croft!! ....wait.....nm
Wow, all this cat-fighting is curing my insomnia...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fact, Kathy's single. Fact, 400 million articles written for women and their self-esteem. Fact, only articles written about men are written by gay men or feminine side doctors. Fact, and Kathy knows this and where women constantly lie but we know the secret, looks concern women 100% of their day. Kathy, average or less than average looking. Lastly, Kathy's single and self pleased.
This CNN story doesn't seem to address women at in the study at all and that isn't fair, Kathy or not.
Frankly, since they decided LATE in the study to track women, that data is too sparse AND incomplete to be considered.
I also have some issues with their "adjusting data for x, y and z. Without seeing the methods, I can't accept or reject it.
But considering the initial failure to recognize that there ARE two sexes in humans, then later try to add females, my initial assessment is to completely disregard this study and have it repeated.
Properly. With both sexes equally assessed.
Because as it is now, it's like saying that a rock is similar but different from a stone, after adjusting for wind, temperature and humidity but that difference might be due to barometric pressure.
In short, I'd use that study to line a parakeet cage. Where it would keep Kathy's opinions company.
What exactly are these people dying FROM? All that I gather from this article is that insomniacs have a 51% chance of dying. I mean, we're all going to die eventually, right?
Perhaps I should do a retrospective study.
I will prove that 100% of creatures that consume oxygen die.
I'll also prove that those creatures consume water, even if it is in varying amounts.
In short, this study is what was found outside a certain chicken farm, piled about 8 feet high. They adjusted numbers, they added in women into it late in the study but attempted to come up with theories with half-data.
Insomnia HAS been linked with a premature death, the study I read theorized it was due to cumulative stress damage.
Of course THAT study wasn't flawed like this bird cage liner is.
I'd REALLY love to try to buy in on your theory, Kathy. But frankly, I can't even rent it.
Let's review one concept. Superiority. Superior in what way?
Is a woman, pound for pound stronger than a man? Nope. She will be able to put out peak effort longer than a man, but always at a lower level. A man would not be able to put out the same level of effort as a woman for as long as well.
That all ties in nicely with testosterone stimulating upper body development for enhanced instant, peak strength. A valuable commodity when hunting or even working a farm field manually.
A woman an put out her peak effort for longer, to better fight off threats to the home, gather food and fire supplies and chase the children about while the husbands were off hunting. Of course, as game is frequently a bit smarter than we guys are, the hunters came back often enough that the family groups had to eat what the women gathered.
THAT has been proven more times with primitive cultures past and present. Even in matriarchal societies.
In short, the men can easily enough go to hunt the mammoths or whatever big game they're trying to get, more often returning with a rabbit or nothing instead. The women were busy taking care of everything and everyone at home, to include fighting off that annoying tiger.
The funny thing is how many of those primitive societal groups were either equal rule of the sexes or even matriarchal societies. It makes sense, as SOMEONE has to lead the group while the hunters are away.
Consider the Iroquois, where them men officially lead in tribal affairs. But should he become abusive of his position, the women would walk up and take his wampum of office and give it to another man to represent them.
If women were so incredibly superior, women would have long ago evolved to naturally reproduce by parthenogenesis, a trend not in evidence in humans. The genetic capability seems to be available, as some non-mammalian creatures do so, but nothing in mammalian lines.
And to correct your data, males are conceived at a ratio of around 3:1 to females. Most males die in utero. As nature has not selected THAT away, males MUST have a valid purpose beyond a target for your dislike, Kathy.
Because, whether or not you choose to accept it, the universe does NOT revolve around YOUR personal likes and dislikes.
You say you are married but your husband knows he is the weaker sex. I am not married (I'm only 22) but even at this point I would not say my boyfriend is a weaker sex than me nor am I a weaker sex. We are equals who love and respect each other. I have my downfalls as does he. This one study certainly does not prove anything about which sex is "better." Everyone dies at some point.
Also the population of men has always been down because they are the first ones sent into battles. Every war has thousands of men dying and very few women.
And as for a world of women who reproduce without men, well you are taking all the fun out of reproducing.